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Discuss Sigma Kera Lift, large format tile lifting system. in the Tiling Tools Forum area at TilersForums.co.uk.

  1. 3_fall

    3_fall Administrator. Staff Member Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    SW London
    so I'm currently undertaking a project at the moment with 1800 x 800 x 10mm Florim porcelain.
    This tile is harder than Ray Winston and Bob Hoskins rolled in to one! :)

    Anyway my point is that it's extremely brittle, as hard as it is.
    One piece in particular was giving me sleepless nights when it came to the thought of not only cutting it, but fixing it to the wall without it snapping clean in half.
    I know this because I had broken one already. :(
    I won't bore you with the knock on effect of this. :)

    My problem was taking two cut outs from it, one 600 x 250mm out the centre, and the other 500 x 100 letterbox below it, and all this in the lower half of the tile, making it extremely top heavy and the top half weighing a good 20kg.
    All the signs for a second disaster were there, I even cut a large hole in my table so that I could fabricate the tile without moving it even once.

    IMG_0462.JPG

    Next concern was trying to fit it to the shower wall.
    Having met Derek @Sigma UK@Sigma UK several times and as he's such an incredibly nice guy I gave him a call to see if he may have a solution to the problem.
    So not only did he offer advice and a solution in the Kera Lift lifting system, but he actually brought one to site, demonstrated it, and even helped me fit the offending beast of a tile.
    What an incredibly kind thing to do!
    I'll admit I had my concerns as to how successful it would be, these tiles have NO flex in them at all, they just snap with no tell tale squeaks or groans.
    So I was understandably concerned about the outcome of this trial, knowing there is slight flex between rail and vacuum cup.
    Turns out, I was just worrying for no reason, not only does Derek have vast product knowledge, he also knows how to handle the equipment too.
    I know that may sound somewhat patronising, but it truly isn't, he really knows his stuff!
    All too often we see products demonstrated by pure academic types who wouldn't even know how to hold a hammer.
    So with Derek's guidance we clamped the Kera Cut to the tile, stood it on the floor and trowled the back with complete ease using the systems A frame supports with wheels.
    It was so simple to apply the adhesive to the tile without a struggle of skimming it on the table and then trying to move it off, that's how it broke the first time.
    The frame itself made from extruded Aluminium is very robust and lightweight.
    Unlike some other lifting systems eh Harry!:D
    It comes in under 17kgs A frame included.
    It has two 2m rails extendable to nearly 4m and two cross members for support.
    A fail safe bracket which hooks under the tile while being transported and 6 excellent suction cups that work with textured tiles too.
    We did in this instance add another two, but only because I wanted it supported in several different places.
    Once fixed the whole frame became rigid and firmly affixed to the tile, very firmly.
    If you wish you can add different brackets that will accept vacuum pumped lifters.
    We lifted the piece straight up and on to the wall, some 460mm off the deck, and leaving the frame in place we used this to agitate the tile to ensure it was fully bedded.
    It was simplicity itself, honestly.
    All these lifting systems are hellishly expensive, without exception.
    So buying the right one for you is paramount. I'm sure there will be some members will have had successful experiences with different systems.
    I can assure you tho, the Kera lift is something I will be buying very shortly, maybe quicker than that haha
    They also do a smaller system which is a mere
    1m x 1m, but actually seems very useful for someone like myself who works predominantly on his own.
    It's all interchangeable and every piece can be used across each system.
    It's also a stock item at @Pro Tiler Tools@Pro Tiler Tools
    I can genuinely recommend this system and it is already on my next tool to buy list.

    So this is this installed piece, and for some truly inexplicable reason I didn't take a photo with it all in place, really sorry, annoyed with myself.
    By the time I remembered, we had packed the large system away and had only left out the 1 x 1m and Derek had to get back to Hampshire, so that had to do unfortunately, but it shows you the concept.

    IMG_0468.JPG IMG_0465.JPG IMG_0470.JPG
     
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  2. JulianSidney

    JulianSidney Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler

    Location:
    ramsey, essex
    really good report marc, the little one looks really handy. Is that something you could get and add to later to make it bigger?
    do you know how much texture those cups can handle?
    nice cut as well :)
     
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  3. callatiler

    callatiler Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    Aberdeen
    Very informative and interesting thread Marc, looks a very useful piece of equipment for large format tiles, you did exceptional to get that piece all cut out and installed. Would love to see photos once you have all walls and mosaic floor done!
     
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  4. 3_fall

    3_fall Administrator. Staff Member Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    SW London
    Cheers Julian, yeah you can actually mate, all parts are individually available, everything from the rails to the little clamps that bolt it all together.
    Had a similar idea my self tbh.
     
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  5. 3_fall

    3_fall Administrator. Staff Member Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    SW London
    Thanks Ian, oh don't worry I'll post it! :D
    I want to wait till it's all second fixed tho, I've seen images of the shower screen and mirror and they are as lavish as the rest, so it should be something else, that's why I'm doing my best to help the client achieve her vision. Shower head is pretty special too :)
     
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  6. Pro Tiler Tools

    Pro Tiler Tools TF Official Sponsor

    Location:
    Northampton
    Awesome report Marc, thank you for the mention :)

    It really is an awesome system, and considerably lighter than some of the other systems available. I also agree that Derek is a top bloke one of the most helpful reps we have ever come across.

    If anyone needs anything let us know :D

    Sam
     
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  7. LEE MAC

    LEE MAC Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    BELFAST
    Very informative and assuring post Marc for anyone considering purchasing this system.
    Derek seems like a top bloke also:thumbsup:
     
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  8. impish

    impish Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler Top Contributor

    Location:
    Lancashire
    Good post Marc.
    I've used both this and the "full-monty" Raimondi T-Move frame.
    The Raimondi T-Move is way too heavy. (and nearly 3x the price) It was a 4 man lift to move a 3.2 x 1.6 x 6mm attached to the frame.
    The Sigma system is WAY lighter and more adjustable, also strangely that it's so light-weight, it's way more ridgid too.
    I just checked and it seems Raimondi have re-designed theirs and it looks suspiciously like the design is heading towards Sigma's simple, effective engineering.
     
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  9. 3_fall

    3_fall Administrator. Staff Member Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    SW London
    Cheers Mark,
    Yeah I've heard from a few now that Raimondi's system is far too heavy to be practical in the real world.
    I also see that the Montolit 'Stick' is also a very basic design, from what I've seen tho, and there's every possibility I'm wrong of course, it only comes in a 'full size' version and looks like without the trolley could be difficult to use as it's not self supporting.
     
  10. MissTiler

    MissTiler TTA Tile Fixer of the year winner 2017 Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler TTA Member JOTM Winner

    Location:
    Norf London
    Is the system used to lift large sheets of glass?
     
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  11. Simons70

    Simons70 Professional Tiler

    Location:
    Luton
    With 6 cups is the expensive one...What about the another one with 2 vacuum cups is any god?
     
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  12. antonio

    antonio Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    italy
    cazzo!! (an exclamation) :)

    I can not answer this trend ...
    I have only seen and never tried.
    One I tried, with 320x160x0.5, but it was disgusting.
     
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  13. Sean Kelly

    Sean Kelly Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler

    Location:
    Ruislip
    Makes me shudder when you write about these large, dense, fragile, thin tiles. Brings back memories of trying to handle, cut and move a 3m x 1m thin tile on a wet & windy building site in the middle of Winter a few years ago. The first tile broke when the wind got under it and blew it away like a kite !!!!! You have just brought back nightmares of that job! Thanks Marc !!
     
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  14. Localtiler

    Localtiler Professional Tiler Top Contributor

    Location:
    Yorkshire
    Personally I think a 3m tile is ridiculas!
     
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  15. impish

    impish Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler Top Contributor

    Location:
    Lancashire
    Well you'll be pleased to know that they are coming out of Italian factories now at 5m!
     
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  16. 3_fall

    3_fall Administrator. Staff Member Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    SW London
    Not that I know of Sharon, large sheets of glass are normally moved with something like this,
    I wonder where Raimondi took their inspiration from? :)

    IMG_0486.jpg
     
  17. 3_fall

    3_fall Administrator. Staff Member Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    SW London
    In my image Ed?
    This one?
    IMG_0470.JPG

    That is one side of the 1m x 1m frame, and it works well I think.
    You can purchase single arm, but it is larger and extends. This is fixed at 1m
     
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  18. Localtiler

    Localtiler Professional Tiler Top Contributor

    Location:
    Yorkshire
    Is a joint really so offensive ?
     
  19. antonio

    antonio Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    italy
    Who does them?
     
  20. 3_fall

    3_fall Administrator. Staff Member Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    SW London
    If you're an average guy, probably not.
    If you're old bill on the other hand, probably! :p
     
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  21. Simons70

    Simons70 Professional Tiler

    Location:
    Luton
    No,this one I think is part of the system.Sigma have more systems but for 3m+ have 2 systems as far I see,one with 2 vacuum and the rest is normal cups,cost around 800£ and the another one have 6 vacuum and cost around 1400£.
    I want to know if the chip one is any god because 1400£ is really expensive.I vacuum separately cost anyway more then 200£...
     
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  22. 3_fall

    3_fall Administrator. Staff Member Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    SW London
    From what I saw yeasterday Ed, the 4 ordinary cups with extra 2 vacuum cups is enough. They work with textured tiles too!
    So if I wanted larger system it would be one of these two. They also have extra safety hooks if cup fails.
    IMG_0493.PNG

    IMG_0494.PNG

    IMG_0492.PNG

    We used system yesterday with ordinary cups only, it worked perfectly, tile and adhesive was 42kgs plus 16kg for frame.
     
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  23. callatiler

    callatiler Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    Aberdeen
    Ordered
     
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  24. impish

    impish Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler Top Contributor

    Location:
    Lancashire
    Not sure Antonio, but my local tile shop Roccia claimed so. 5m x 1.6 x 6mm!
     
  25. 3_fall

    3_fall Administrator. Staff Member Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    SW London
    I was told recently that a new breed of tile is about to hit the market, they have a high metal content, yes on purpose.
    Reason being is that they are being aimed at the cladding market.
    Idea being that magnetic strips are mechanically fixed to the building and the tiles are literally stuck to the magnets. Good luck cutting them!
     
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  26. impish

    impish Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler Top Contributor

    Location:
    Lancashire
    And some are going to get sold into retail, or spec'd by enthusiastic interior designers...
    Time we all started covering ourselves in our terms and conditions, on the handling and cutting side of things I think...
     
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  27. 3_fall

    3_fall Administrator. Staff Member Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    SW London
    Was talking to Stuart, (Stu Lilley) the other day in fact, and he was saying that he knows of some tiles independently tested and they were so far over grade 6 they were off the scale, and even actually contained steel. From Asian countries I might add.
    So it's not a wonder that cutting porcelain is getting harder everyday.
     
  28. MissTiler

    MissTiler TTA Tile Fixer of the year winner 2017 Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler TTA Member JOTM Winner

    Location:
    Norf London
    Same difference
     
  29. nicknick81

    nicknick81 Active Member

    Location:
    Cardiff
    Alternatively you could always forget about the fancy expensive gadgets and just hire an extra pair of hands for the day. Large format tiles need to be handled with care ideally by 2 installers as per this youtube vid
     
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  30. Chalker

    Chalker Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner

    Location:
    Tadcaster
    Nice to mr Chumley Warner ( posh guy) still has a job narrating
     
  31. hmtiling

    hmtiling Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner

    Location:
    Isle of Wight
    Possibly missed the point with the cut outs and it being full bodied, top heavy etc
     
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  32. 3_fall

    3_fall Administrator. Staff Member Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    SW London
    Well I was gonna just delete it Harry as it is far to closely related to Royal Tiles, but hey, if they actually knew what they were talking about they wouldn't have posted. :p
     
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  33. Pro Tiler Tools

    Pro Tiler Tools TF Official Sponsor

    Location:
    Northampton
    Talking of large format tiles, who fancies one of these?

    Its is HUGE!!! This one is on its way to Holland :)

    Its actually a lot lighter than we thought it would be.

    Sam

    ^831983AA636F0E04F16F4A21F9C6789C902317FDA0EAC64333^pimgpsh_fullsize_distr.jpg ^AF9448630408A67E1692F23F36B7A6156E360E55EE046B2900^pimgpsh_fullsize_distr.jpg ^FD8E90C86DA599FDC2AB5430C32494DA8B32DF1007D7D41852^pimgpsh_fullsize_distr.jpg
     
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  34. 3_fall

    3_fall Administrator. Staff Member Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    SW London
    Next on your list of a growing Sigma collection then Geoff @Plan Tec Tiling@Plan Tec Tiling :p:thumbsup:
     
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  35. impish

    impish Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler Top Contributor

    Location:
    Lancashire
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