Myths and Misunderstandings: Testing the water resistance of grout - Tile Advice

[Rizzle from the Portizzle]

Please don't take this the wrong way @Ray TT @ Porcel-Thin but I would assume hot water systems, shower valves and such have changed somewhat since.
The sheer volume of water in a 10 minute shower these days is far amount greater.

i have not taken this the wrong way and never would .ok today we have water saving shower heads and so on .all resticted by water regulalsion the water coming from the mains has gone down over past 20 years by 50% from 2.5 bar to 1.5 to 1.1 bar modern shower use far less water .now i might have a 3bar system but when i open the tap it drops to less than a bar .its the flow rate that realy counts how many litres per minute 17 litres per minute will run two shower rooms today .so the truth is we are using far less water today to take a shower than we did 10 years ago at least 50% less 20 years ago 70% less wake up and smell the cheese its all smoke screens and mirrors .next time you do a wet room check out the flow rate the valve will be restited and so will be the head welcome to the real eco world

 

[AliGage]

i have not taken this the wrong way and never would .ok today we have water saving shower heads and so on .all resticted by water regulalsion the water coming from the mains has gone down over past 20 years by 50% from 2.5 bar to 1.5 to 1.1 bar modern shower use far less water .now i might have a 3bar system but when i open the tap it drops to less than a bar .its the flow rate that realy counts how many litres per minute 17 litres per minute will run two shower rooms today .so the truth is we are using far less water today to take a shower than we did 10 years ago at least 50% less 20 years ago 70% less wake up and smell the cheese its all smoke screens and mirrors .next time you do a wet room check out the flow rate the valve will be restited and so will be the head welcome to the real eco world

And in the time your recollecting what sort of shower are we talking about Ray?
I would of thought most would be gravity fed showers, in which case you wouldn't be getting 2.5bar at the head of the shower. Maybe in the main, but the header tank would need to be 70' above the shower.

 

[Rizzle from the Portizzle]

And in the time your recollecting what sort of shower are we talking about Ray?
I would of thought most would be gravity fed showers, in which case you wouldn't be getting 2.5bar at the head of the shower. Maybe in the main, but the header tank would need to be 70' above the shower.

the point is nobody then or now it has always been flow rate and the flow rate today is 50% lower .and most tower blocks and estates got there water from separte boiler rooms today we have low pressure taps there flow rate is far higher than hight presure taps try a low pressure tap on a high presure system and then a high presure tap an emtey bucket how long does it take to fill then try it the other way round .this will prove how much water flows flows today ,you may well be surprived .how much unresticted taps 20 years ago could pump out .a presurised tap may look fast but less is comming out .dont beieve all you think you see as the glass will be half full

 

[AliGage]

I would have to sit and work out some calculations but I'm struggling to be convinced.
Comparing two like for like dwellings using hot water cylinder and header or a modern day setup.

 

[macten]

I always advise my customers to have tanking installed.
I used tanking in my own bathroom and will use it in my ensuite if I ever get round to doing it (did first fix 5 years ago!) I am a fan of tanking but I do think a certain amount of scaremongering goes on.
If a customer chooses tanking then it's a great little earner for me and added peace of mind - but from all the rip outs I've done (and in 8 years I've done an awful lot now including the removal of some truly dodgy installs) the only damage I have ever seen from water ingress is either from where tiles meet the bath/tray ie silicone has failed and water has crept up a few inches and caused problems to the tiles and/or substrate. Or on a couple of occasions the grout had come out (too much movement on a stud wall and/or crap grouting with even crapper grout.

When I fit a bath it is battened and blobbed in with silicone plus a bead around the rim.
Trays are also secured and then blobbed in with silicone plus a bead around the rim.
Wall is primed (this makes the substrate waterproof to a degree). Tiled and grouted properly with quality gear with a further bead of silicone after tiling and I really can't see how you're going to get a problem.

There maybe a handful of scenarios where I would insist on it but for the vast majority of jobs I merely advise it and if they want it great. There was time when I would only do the job if I tanked but experience has taught me that if I'm doing the whole bathroom (plumbing and all) then it really isn't the absolute necessity I was led to believe.

 

[AliGage]

Back on topic

Absolutely @macten
There's a firm argument in its necessity in the floor of a wet area and 4" up the walls. But as to whether it's a must have all the way up to ceiling, with your 600x600 porcelain tiles. No
As someone says, there's key areas which are common to Water ingress.

Sometimes OTT belt and braces have a habit of becoming the norm!

 

[widler]

Just been to a small hotel in zante, i was top floor , a mate directly underneath room, bathroms fully tiled with small bath , powerfull shower(it blew my chesthair off )
And drain in floor.
Built in 2004,24ish rooms, not a bit of silicone anywhere,all corners grouted, im presuming floors are tanked but not betting on it, walls either.
Not a leak in sight downstairs , if its tiled right ( i will argue till im blue in the face ) it won't need tanking.
As for overlappng the tanking tape onto the bath, possibly tge daftest thing ive ever heard

 

[AliGage]

There's probably 24" of reinforced concrete for any minor leak to pass through first. Not likely you'd see anything to be fair

 

[Qwerty]

I'm looking forward to the results on this.
I've often considered contacting the officials in those countries where building standards stipulate waterproofing to get the reasons why they insist tanking is present. All of those authorities can't be wrong can they??

 

[The D]

ok i am thinking silicon the corners and have one 3mm joint on the base of the box so that when the water comes gushing through the grout i will spot it easily


i am not trying to make an argument against the use of tanking in wet areas more just trying to put across how a tanking system should perform and what we should be telling our customers about the way grout performs.

 

[macten]

so that when the water comes gushing through the grout i will spot it easily

 

[WetSaw]

I'll take some pictures of the "luxury" shower in the house we rent. I'm damn sure there's no tanking and I have access under the block and beam floor, tiled directly on the blocks, and it's bone dry

 

[Dan]

I shall learn a lot from this thread it seem.

Good move.

 

[Dan]

Move this to the adhesive forum?

 

[AliGage]

@Dan it'd be tanking and wetrooms. But if perhaps keep it in the arms.