Myths and Misunderstandings: Testing the water resistance of grout

[John Benton]

Regarding the length of time for the water to penetrate the grout I saw this test when I went on the DryTreat sealer course. 2 'cups' made out of grout approx 20mm thick, one left without any sealer and one treated with Drytreat. They were then filled with water and the untreated one lasted about 30 minutes before the water was visible and the bottom of the cup.

 

[The D]

wow 30 minutes that's fast

 

[John Benton]

That's exactly what I thought Deano. Bearing in mind the grout joint is only as deep as the tile and if 4 people use the shower consecutively that could quite easily be 1/2 hour in total. That's why I now tank showers over baths as well.

 

[Rizzle from the Portizzle]

hi dean i am with you on this tanking in your every day bathroom is a waste of money .when i fixed tiles in bathrooms shower rooms in the old days .i would run a bead of silcon down the courners and base before i started tiling then fix my tiles into the wet silcon so it was always behind the tiles and could never peel off now grout then resilcon on the top so when the client could see the silcon on the out side peeling it was not to late as the silcon behind was still holding the water back .so if you have time dean silcon one up first lay the tiles into it wet then do the other with no silcon behind the results should be intresting as the weight of water will be greatested at its loading points bottom courners only real tilers ask the right questions the rest just pay for there ignornce

 

[AliGage]

Please don't take this the wrong way @Ray TT @ Porcel-Thin but I would assume hot water systems, shower valves and such have changed somewhat since.
The sheer volume of water in a 10 minute shower these days is far amount greater.

 

[Rizzle from the Portizzle]

Please don't take this the wrong way @Ray TT @ Porcel-Thin but I would assume hot water systems, shower valves and such have changed somewhat since.
The sheer volume of water in a 10 minute shower these days is far amount greater.

i have not taken this the wrong way and never would .ok today we have water saving shower heads and so on .all resticted by water regulalsion the water coming from the mains has gone down over past 20 years by 50% from 2.5 bar to 1.5 to 1.1 bar modern shower use far less water .now i might have a 3bar system but when i open the tap it drops to less than a bar .its the flow rate that realy counts how many litres per minute 17 litres per minute will run two shower rooms today .so the truth is we are using far less water today to take a shower than we did 10 years ago at least 50% less 20 years ago 70% less wake up and smell the cheese its all smoke screens and mirrors .next time you do a wet room check out the flow rate the valve will be restited and so will be the head welcome to the real eco world

 

[AliGage]

i have not taken this the wrong way and never would .ok today we have water saving shower heads and so on .all resticted by water regulalsion the water coming from the mains has gone down over past 20 years by 50% from 2.5 bar to 1.5 to 1.1 bar modern shower use far less water .now i might have a 3bar system but when i open the tap it drops to less than a bar .its the flow rate that realy counts how many litres per minute 17 litres per minute will run two shower rooms today .so the truth is we are using far less water today to take a shower than we did 10 years ago at least 50% less 20 years ago 70% less wake up and smell the cheese its all smoke screens and mirrors .next time you do a wet room check out the flow rate the valve will be restited and so will be the head welcome to the real eco world

And in the time your recollecting what sort of shower are we talking about Ray?
I would of thought most would be gravity fed showers, in which case you wouldn't be getting 2.5bar at the head of the shower. Maybe in the main, but the header tank would need to be 70' above the shower.

 

[Rizzle from the Portizzle]

And in the time your recollecting what sort of shower are we talking about Ray?
I would of thought most would be gravity fed showers, in which case you wouldn't be getting 2.5bar at the head of the shower. Maybe in the main, but the header tank would need to be 70' above the shower.

the point is nobody then or now it has always been flow rate and the flow rate today is 50% lower .and most tower blocks and estates got there water from separte boiler rooms today we have low pressure taps there flow rate is far higher than hight presure taps try a low pressure tap on a high presure system and then a high presure tap an emtey bucket how long does it take to fill then try it the other way round .this will prove how much water flows flows today ,you may well be surprived .how much unresticted taps 20 years ago could pump out .a presurised tap may look fast but less is comming out .dont beieve all you think you see as the glass will be half full

 

[AliGage]

I would have to sit and work out some calculations but I'm struggling to be convinced.
Comparing two like for like dwellings using hot water cylinder and header or a modern day setup.

 

[macten]

I always advise my customers to have tanking installed.
I used tanking in my own bathroom and will use it in my ensuite if I ever get round to doing it (did first fix 5 years ago!) I am a fan of tanking but I do think a certain amount of scaremongering goes on.
If a customer chooses tanking then it's a great little earner for me and added peace of mind - but from all the rip outs I've done (and in 8 years I've done an awful lot now including the removal of some truly dodgy installs) the only damage I have ever seen from water ingress is either from where tiles meet the bath/tray ie silicone has failed and water has crept up a few inches and caused problems to the tiles and/or substrate. Or on a couple of occasions the grout had come out (too much movement on a stud wall and/or crap grouting with even crapper grout.

When I fit a bath it is battened and blobbed in with silicone plus a bead around the rim.
Trays are also secured and then blobbed in with silicone plus a bead around the rim.
Wall is primed (this makes the substrate waterproof to a degree). Tiled and grouted properly with quality gear with a further bead of silicone after tiling and I really can't see how you're going to get a problem.

There maybe a handful of scenarios where I would insist on it but for the vast majority of jobs I merely advise it and if they want it great. There was time when I would only do the job if I tanked but experience has taught me that if I'm doing the whole bathroom (plumbing and all) then it really isn't the absolute necessity I was led to believe.