Dot & Dab travertine?

[spanky]

Can someone tell me if you can dot and dab 600 x 400 travertine tiles onto a plasterboard wall?

Thanks

 

[LM Ceramics]

ill add my input and agree with everyone else you should not dot and dab tiles it isnt the correct way to do this


with the tiler using the dot and dab method im suprised he isnt using ceramic wall tile adhesive for travertine lol

 

[spanky]

I have been totally honest with the main contractor throughout this, and I have shown him this thread, well, up until about 6.00pm.

I would like to think he has gone home and been keeping a sly eye on it, it's his reputation at stake at the end of the day.
(I would have been keeping an eye on it, I work for myself, I repair, sell & trade in LCD and Plasma TV's & Parts, if I sell one and it goes wrong then I fix it, PERIOD. I have a good name and I would like to keep it that way.)

I have just printed the whole thread off, I will show it to him in the morning.

I expect the tiles to be removed and re-affixed correctly, I have no intention of taking any risks with it, I reckon it should cost £1800 at most to have 40 odd sqm of these fitted, that £40 per sqm, he's being paid £7000 or so for this job, so there's plenty of money to cover the cost of having it done correctly.

I will of course keep you all informed, and add the thanks necessary.

Tony (Spanky)

p.s.

Rogue traders does not seem too far off the mark.

 

[brian c]

if you have any trouble with him then tell him his services are no longer required and then get one of the lads on here from your area to fix the tiles for you .At least it wpuld be done correctly.

 

[charlie1]

Right spanky, I need not add anymore to this thread as it sounds like you have made your mind up to confront the tiler. DO NOT ALLOW THIS GUY TO CONTINUE IN THE MORNING. ENOUGH DAMMAGE HAS BEEN CAUSED!!!

Please keep us up to date with this one.

 

[steve mason]

Why is it so bad to dot and dab? I was told that it gave you more play to get the wall square if it was out. Is it best practise to put adi on the wall first then trowel and then tile? Do you pack tiles out from there if the wall isnt true?

 

[charlie1]

You should make your wall straight before you tile by skimming with rapid set or DD plaster board. The correct method of tiling is to get as close to 100% coverage as pos. Do not DD tiles as practice. There are more tilers out ther than you think practicing this method of tiling though experienced ones at that. I dare say you could mabe get away with it with smaller format ceramics but when it comes down to it why take the chance. Perssonaly I use my flat edge of the trowel to plaster the wall with addy then go over it with the serated edge then tile.

TO CLARIFY - TRAVERTINE IS A DEFINATE, DEFINATE NO NO FOR DOT DABBING.

 

[grumpy]

There is nothing wrong with dabbing the wall tiles so long as its a cement based adhesive.From the photo you posted it looks like there is at least 75% coverage on the tile and thats good enough.Alot of whats been said on this post is inexperience.For those people who have been tiling long enough will remember bal used to sell tools a few years ago and one trowel they had in the range was a 50% coverage.Also the trowel method of fixing is big here in the uk and some other countries but many mediterainian countries dab tiles. do yourself a favour and speak to an architect for the correct imformation.

 

[chris.tiling]

There is nothing wrong with dabbing the wall tiles so long as its a cement based adhesive.From the photo you posted it looks like there is at least 75% coverage on the tile and thats good enough.Alot of whats been said on this post is inexperience.For those people who have been tiling long enough will remember bal used to sell tools a few years ago and one trowel they had in the range was a 50% coverage.Also the trowel method of fixing is big here in the uk and some other countries but many mediterainian countries dab tiles. do yourself a favour and speak to an architect for the correct imformation.

?????????????????????????????

I may be inexperienced but I dont think you'll find the likes of Dave and Fekin are..........better apologise to them now.

 

[spanky]

Yes, I too am now confused why the above comment was made?

 

[charlie1]

Hi grumpy are you the tiler by chance???

 

[Fekin]

There is nothing wrong with dabbing the wall tiles so long as its a cement based adhesive.

Fixing heavy tiles with dabs here n there is skimping on materials and more importantly safety.

From the photo you posted it looks like there is at least 75% coverage on the tile and thats good enough.

If the tiles had been fixed propperly, the whole back of the tile would have still been covered with ribbed adhesive when pulled from the wall and adhesive should still also be on the wall showing the adhesive had a propper mechanical grip to both tile and wall, and the only way the tile comes away is to rip the adhesive in two.
The tiles spanky took off came away with no effort, and near enough zero adhesive had a mechanical grip to the wall as the splodges were only on the tile.

Alot of whats been said on this post is inexperience.

I have read the entire thread and everyone is in agreement that the tiles should not be dabbed on and with the reasons why it shouldn't be done, and the views posted are not inexperianced either, far from it Grumpy, the experiance of the members of this forum is colossal and we don't recommend sloppy workmanship.

For those people who have been tiling long enough will remember bal used to sell tools a few years ago and one trowel they had in the range was a 50% coverage.

Do they still sell them though ? and as time goes by, the market changes and tile formats keep on getting bigger and heavier meaning you need better mechanical grip to fix them.

Also the trowel method of fixing is big here in the uk and some other countries but many mediterainian countries dab tiles. do yourself a favour and speak to an architect for the correct imformation.

How about speaking to the adhesive manufacturers, after all, they make the products and see if they recommend you use their product in this manner and I'd bet anything they would say the same as we have all said here, apart from you Grumpy :lol:

 

[spanky]

I thought the same, but I do not think the Tiler has any knowledge of this site, and he registered in Novenber....

 

[spanky]

We have just phoned the manufacturer, we are waiting for a call back from their Technical department.

The tiler is not here yet. Due any minute though.

 

[Fekin]

?????????????????????????????

I may be inexperienced but I dont think you'll find the likes of Dave and Fekin are..........better apologise to them now.

No need to apologise :lol:, and Daves experiance far far out weighs mine as I have not been fixing for anywhere as long as Dave, but I do make sure I use the correct methods and not sloppy tactics.

 

[brian c]

He might be someone the tiler who is doing the work for you knows....mmmmmmmmm

 

[spanky]

1st Adhesive manufacturer said it a big NO. The also said it is against British Standards.

What that actually means I have no idea.

 

[charlie1]

What it means is all us unexperienced tilers on here where correct.

 

[Fekin]

British standards is a code of practice that all tilers should really follow.

It states how everything should be done propperly and safely from start to finish, something that grumpy dosen't seem to bother with in this case.

 

[grumpy]

Spanky i can tell you now before you get into a huge wrangle with this tiler, if you end up in court on the issue of dabbing tiles you will without a shadow of doubt loose the case.Replies from an internet forum hold no water in court.
Get the correct advise from the adhesive manufacturer and an architect and go from there.
Using the reply from this thread against your tiler is money in the bank to him.

 

[Fekin]

Spanky i can tell you now before you get into a huge wrangle with this tiler, if you end up in court on the issue of dabbing tiles you will without a shadow of doubt loose the case.Replies from an internet forum hold no water in court.
Get the correct advise from the adhesive manufacturer and an architect and go from there.
Using the reply from this thread against your tiler is money in the bank to him.

He's already been told by one adhesive manufacturer that dabbing is a big NO.
Even if this went to court, the method the tiler is using is against british standards so he wouldn't have a leg to stand on.


:huh2:

 

[spanky]

I have allready spoken to 1 of the technical departments of 1 of the adhesives companies that have supplied adhesive and they said it's against British Standards.

The information in this thread would be perfectly admissable as evidence, especially if it were backed up by one of the more knowledgable & experienced tilers acting as an expert witness.

Please don't lecture me on rules of law, I am usually pretty good when it comes to that.

The internet is a mind of information. Whatever it is, it has happened before on many occasions, and it has been written about many times.

Please don't take that personally though.

 

[charlie1]

I do agree, before you take grumpy to court ahim..ehh... the tiler you should get advice from the adhesive manufacturer

Are you , or do you know the tiler???? come on man tell us.

 

[grumpy]

I have given evidence twice in the past five years on tiling cases.If i was giving evidence in this case i would discredit your internet forum advice simply by producing some of the replies posted on other subjects.In the last week i have seen someone advising drilling a hole in a ceiling to let water out,throwing soiled water behind bushes in the garden and even throwing it down drains.Be careful to understand the imformation given by the adhesive manufacturer they will no doubt say 100% coverage is highly desirable but i doubt if they will say its an absolute requirement.off to work now boys but happy to carry this on later.

 

[spanky]

So far from the conversation with the contractor and the tiler that they are sticking with the "they'll be fine" attitude.

Despite the adhesive manufacturer saying otherwise.

I am pretty sure they do not want the cost of doing it again, let alone replacing the tiles.

You help is much appreciated.

 

[spanky]

I am pretty sure he isn't the tiler, given the fact he is here, and I haven't seen him on a PDA typing. LOL

 

[charlie1]

No I was half joking when I suggested he was the tiler however there does seem to be a lack of concern from grumpy from your side consedering the H&S nature of this isssue. I do think at times people can get a bit hung up about 100% coverage but when you are dealing with extreamly large format thick tiles made from natural stone and porcelain then you have reason to worry.

 

[pjtiler]

from what i can see from the photo,s the whole lot needs taking down at re tiling
for a tile of this size and weight there no where near enough adhesive contacting the wall surface (dotted or not ) was the wall primed ???? it doesn't look like it to me
just for the record spot fixing was the recommend method of fixing large format marble and granite back in the sixties (but NEVER on to plaster board )
if i was you i would see if the job can be salvaged by cleaning and reusing where possible
i would,nt hold much truck with british standards they move the goalposts to suit
i really hope you resolve this situation without recourse to the courts

 

[spanky]

Well it appears that they have no intention of redoing the job unless I provide more tiles and pay again.

Depsite the fact that both adhesive firms state catagorically that it is wrong, 1 is willing to put this into writing, I did not ask the other.

I have been told to write to them stating that the work is not fit for purpose under the sale of good and services act 1982.

I should give them the opportunity to put it right without further expense to myself.

I have been told to send this recorded delivery.

Your thoughts and does anyone know a surveyor who will come in and give a report as to the workmanship completed so far in case I have to go to court?

Thanks

Tony

 

[grumpy]

Considering the location of these tiles i would be more bothered about the lack of movement joints!
I would think that most of the woes spanky is having could have been avoided if he had picked a tiler that he knew was a time served tradesman,checked some of his references,had a look at some previous work this tiler has done,made sure he has the correct and up to date insurance cover and considering the cost of the tiles it would have been a good idea to get the spec from the adhesive manufacturer first.
its worth noting that adhesive manufacturers will always give a belt and braces answer to cover themselves.Over the years ive seen tiles stuck on with evostick that have still be well stuck 25 years on.And anyone who has tried to remove tiles stuck on with fix'n'grout will know how well the so called lesser adhesives can perform.Mechanical fixing of granite to shop fronts never calls for 100% contact.

 

[spanky]

The company not only came recommended, the original tiler did too, I saw him working when he started, he did it to the letter until the plasterboard started to come away from the walls where the 2nd plasterer had skimped on material and time.

By the time the plasterer had rectified the problem the first tiler was no longer available as he was on another job.

The contractor then supplied the 2nd Tiler who obviously had much less experience.

He even had to go to the local tile shop to ask if he could cut them with an anle grinder.

I really don't need all this, all I want is a bathroom.

I figured I was paying a fair price to have it done, 3 quotes were had before the job started, I picked the middle one for 2 reasons, recommendation and because he was the middle quote.

The 3 quotes were not all that far from each other.

I now require 3 quotes for the work to be re-done, 1 of them will be chosen as I have little or no intention of letting them back in, unless they have a massive change of heart and can convince me they will actually do it correctly.

Anyone? I am in Ansley Village, just outside Nuneaton.

Luckily I am in the position to be able to pay another supplier regardless of the outcome of this matter.

I work from home so am about 90% of the time, from 8am till 10pm shall we say.

PM me if your interested.

I do love this forum.

Thanks again