Why Adhesive Back Of Hardiebacker Type Boards Over Chipboard?

[sg86]

Hi all,

I've researched and researched on the best thing to do when tiling my bathroom floor. The floor is T&G chipboard, the green stuff (property about 18yr old), and is pretty sound in my opinion.

I was going to ditra matt over it but some tilers i've had over some said thats fine, some said to put down 12mm ply, another 6mm ply, another tile straight on.

I've decided to put down 6mm hardie backer, and then ditra matting. My question is why do i have to put adhesive on the underside of the boards and then screw down, instead of just screwing them down? I thought the whole point of overboarding like this was so that no wet addy would touch the chipboard, if i'm going to put adhesive on the chipboard why would i not just put the membrane straight on top?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Old Mod]

What's your final floor covering? (Tile)
If it's anything other than stone Ditra isn't necessary.
Unless of course u we're going to use the Ditra as a waterproof membrane as well.
The Hardie will act as a decoupler.
The reason for the adhesive is merely to take out any unevenness in the substrate, it's function is not to stick it down, the mechanical fixings do that job.
Given the other options ur were told, u've chosen the best one imo.
You could just use a decoupling membrane but the Hardie will also firm up the floor as well, although it's not designed for that, but it's a useful side effect.
Just remember to stagger joints and tape them after its installed.

 

[sg86]

Hey thanks for the quick reply.

I really thought the whole point was to not get the chipboard wet though? Maybe water from the adhesive won't soak into it fast enough, but i'm dubious about that.

If the floor is level and flat (i'll double check but i think its pretty much spot on), can i just screw down the hardie? I read somewhere you can just use a bit of silicone or something on the back of the boards for the purpose of leveling any small unevenness?

 

[Old Mod]

Honestly, u've no need to worry about moisture from adhesive,
Prime the chipboard as per adhesive manufacturers recommendations, and use a rapid adhesive if ur still worried, but it'll be fine.
U don't need a massive bed, 6-8mm trowel will normally be ample, as long as u get good overall coverage.
If u choose to stray from Hardie's fitting procedure that's up to you, but that's how anyone on here who uses Hardie, will fix it!
Bagged powder adhesive only requires time to set, it's a chemical reaction, unlike tubbed adhesive.

 

[sg86]

So, in this regard if the floor is currently solid, i've no need for ditra or hardie board :S. If i'm putting the same adhesive onto the chipboard i don't see the point.

Also i've been told and read elsewhere that adhesive onto chipboard is a nono.

On a sidenote, can one use normal drywall screws for hardie? The ones they sell are 32mm and these would fly right through potentially into pipes, i need 20-25's with the 6mm board

 

[Italy]

Hey thanks for the quick reply.

I really thought the whole point was to not get the chipboard wet though? Maybe water from the adhesive won't soak into it fast enough, but i'm dubious about that.

If the floor is level and flat (i'll double check but i think its pretty much spot on), can i just screw down the hardie? I read somewhere you can just use a bit of silicone or something on the back of the boards for the purpose of leveling any small unevenness?

@3_fall ,earns flower of sterling, just to quickly answer forum!!!
is the master of tile!!! is the n1

 

[Old Mod]

Ok, yes u need to isolate chipboard!
DO NOT TILE CHIPBOARD!
The Hardie does NOT rely on the adhesive!
Just use a good quality, self countersinking, non rusting 25mm screw!
Screw in the predetermined positions on the Hardie, and u'll have a good solid substrate as long as your original floor is secure, flat with no deflection, and sufficiently load bearing.
That's all there is to it, nothing complicated, just straight forward.

 

[sg86]

Perfect thanks . I have some single-part flexible adhesive (bal), so if this stuff is ok i may as well trowel some on before the boards, i bought it a year ago and it says it has 12 months shelf life, how would i know if its "off"? lol

BAL - Single part flex GREY - Single Bags - bulk discounts available from 24.99

 

[Old Mod]

As long as it's been stored correctly it may be ok.
If it's at all lumpy in the bag, it's prob not.
When u mix it up u'll know if it's no good, it'll just be different.

 

[sg86]

As long as it's been stored correctly it may be ok.
If it's at all lumpy in the bag, it's prob not.
When u mix it up u'll know if it's no good, it'll just be different.

Hehe, that's difficult when you don't know what normal is in the first place . As you say i'll take a look and see if its lumpy. For this purpose from what i'm told its only meant to be a filler really, so may as well use it and save wasting 30quid.

Its probably not wise to admit i ripped the bathroom out over a year ago is it?

Just one last thing 3_fall before i leave the thread, i asked about screws but the question got lost it seems. Can i just use drywall screws with this boarding? i want to use something shorter than the hardie 32mm ones

 

[Old Mod]

Post number 7!

 

[sg86]

Post number 7!

oops, thanks!

 

[Andy Allen]

Hehe, that's difficult when you don't know what normal is in the first place . As you say i'll take a look and see if its lumpy. For this purpose from what i'm told its only meant to be a filler really, so may as well use it and save wasting 30quid.

Its probably not wise to admit i ripped the bathroom out over a year ago is it?

Just one last thing 3_fall before i leave the thread, i asked about screws but the question got lost it seems. Can i just use drywall screws with this boarding? i want to use something shorter than the hardie 32mm ones

Turbo gold screws from screw fix are spot on ..

 

[One Day]

You can tile direct to chipboard. Oh yes you can.
But there are a few big IFS.
If the chipboard is not P5 i.e. waxy coating which will interfere with a bond.
If the floor is well braced and free of excessive deflection.
If you use a very high quality adhesive such as BAL Fastflex, Tilemaster Ultimate, Kerakoll Rapidflex.
If you are prepared to risk it and are confident that you can do everything spot-on!

 

[bcd-87]

Hey thanks for the quick reply.

I really thought the whole point was to not get the chipboard wet though? Maybe water from the adhesive won't soak into it fast enough, but i'm dubious about that.

If the floor is level and flat (i'll double check but i think its pretty much spot on), can i just screw down the hardie? I read somewhere you can just use a bit of silicone or something on the back of the boards for the purpose of leveling any small unevenness?

Listen to the pros pal

 

[Martyn Leeds]

and the poor blokes who wasted their time, their own free time, unpaid, to come round and give there advice and to quote, all with absolutely zero chance of actually winning the work.

Plenty of homeowners think that they can call people round to pick their brains for information on how to do the job with no intention of ever paying anyone.

(fairplay 1 or 2 gave poor advice like).

Just the way I read it and obviously its just my humble opinion..

 

[sg86]

and the poor blokes who wasted their time, their own free time, unpaid, to come round and give there advice and to quote, all with absolutely zero chance of actually winning the work.

Plenty of homeowners think that they can call people round to pick their brains for information on how to do the job with no intention of ever paying anyone.

(fairplay 1 or 2 gave poor advice like).

Just the way I read it and obviously its just my humble opinion..

Probably best if you pipe down and keep your assumptions to yourself.

I never said i was doing the tiling, the two who are in line to do it asked me to prep the floor myself, all my questions were about the floor not the tiling. I am a tradesman myself and know what it's like to quote and not win jobs.

Martyn, professional tiler - not very humble

 

[Old Mod]

Ok! So we won't take this conversation any further
or I'll just lock the thread down.
Thank you kindly!
Have a nice day!

 

[sg86]

Ok! So we won't take this conversation any further
or I'll just lock the thread down.
Thank you kindly!
Have a nice day!

3_fall, really appreciate the answers i got from you and others, i've ordered all the bits and will give it a go on the weekend

 

[Martyn Leeds]

Good response.

Not sure why someone would ask for you to prep the job for them, a process you've not done before, with materials you've not used. I wouldn't & neither would 99% of the users on here either.

But good luck with it and I hope your man does a good job for you..

 

[Italy]

I do not understand where the problem lies, what they're explaining is also a comparison of different opinions and can also serve us tilers.
I am the TF for this also, I'm here to learn .....
in Italy not there is a TF, probably because like-minded. @Martyn Leeds
sorry if I interfered.
marc now you can close trend. ahaha

 

[Old Mod]

haha @antonio,
There is no need to close the thread.
All I meant was I did not want it to get abusive.
I was only refferring to the end posts.
Sometimes personal opinions cloud judgement and spoil a thread!
But everyone's happy now!
And it will remain open.

 

[bcd-87]

Ok! So we won't take this conversation any further
or I'll just lock the thread down.
Thank you kindly!
Have a nice day!

Get rid of him