Poor tiling job

[Locornwall]

Please can someone who knows what they are talking about help me out.

I am very unhappy. I purchased a new build and had plans to have the kitchen, dining room and utility rooms tiled in a nice shiny porcelain tile.

I decided to go with a local builder, who stages he does tiling. He did other tiling work, which I believe has been done to a satisfactory standard. Unfortunately we are extremely unhappy with the other kitchen etc areas.

Issues I am not happy with:

• Uneven tiles
• Grout different colours, patchy and not the colour specified
• Thick (approx 2-3cm) grout next to patio doors and other places
• Grout along parts of skirting not flush with different tiles
• Grout along skirting looks messy

Any advice welcome. As I said, we are extremely unhappy. He quoted us in the thousands and essentially it’s not actually down to the money. We wanted these rooms to be stunning and therefore wanted a professional job. I have what I would describe as a diy job. It has not been planned out properly, which is obvious, as he has miscalculated. This is why he has had to fill the bit between the tile and patio door with a thick bead of grout.

 

[J Sid]

Pictures are a help, but why use a builder to do tiling?

 

[Locornwall]

Some of the areas I am not happy with.

 

[J Sid]

As you say, not good
Over washed grout, bad cuts and maybe setting out.
Have you spoken to this builder about your concerns?

 

[Locornwall]

I used a builder, as he stated he did tiling work and tilers in my area all seem busy. I moved into my home and we were keen to get things started ASAP, the builder is recognised by the local authority .
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He rushed off before I could go through things properly. He did the grouting last night and first thing in the morning I mentioned the colour wasn’t right, as it’s supposed to be grey. His reply, “I’ll leave you with some grout so you can finish it yourself”.
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By the way, that’s not all. If you look at the room as a whole, the grout looks awful and tiles obviously uneven. The problem is to do it properly would been starting again. I don’t want to pay him anything.

 

[J Sid]

Good tilers are busy and can be booked for a future day, quite builders will say they can tile and do it straight away.
From the pictures it's not acceptable workmanship and you should tell him what your not happy with. if he is a respectable builder he will put it right to a standard you are happy with

 

[Locornwall]

Thanks for the advice.

My concern is that to do the job properly would mean him essentially starting again. To be honest, looking at the job I don’t think he really understand how to do it properly now. I think I could do a better job. But as I said, it would mean him starting again. If he refuses I don’t intend on paying him. Any thoughts on that? Also, in terms of proving the level of skill and finish how would I prove this is below par? It obviously is, however he may try and go through the court. Really disappointing all this, because I know there are people out there who can do a good job, but these types ruin it. It makes me want to avoid using tradesmen forever.

 

[J Sid]

You have to give the opportunity to put the work right and to an exceptable standard and don't pay him until you are happy with what he has done.
Yes it will all need doing again at his expense. Take plenty of pics and tell him what your not happy with and how you want it. Cuts done properly with a 3mm space around the skirting and door. No lips and an even and constant grout colour.
Talk to him and see what he is going to do.

 

[Locornwall]

I am so grateful for your advice. I am almost crying, as this has been such a big job for me in my new house, but let down.

I will do what you have said and will post on the conclusion. If I’m honest I think he will try and get out of doing much, and try and threaten me with getting money. It’s crazy how much tiling can be, I guess because it’s so labour intensive. For him to replace what he has done, would mean he is seriously out of pocket. However, moral for him is not to take on jobs he cannot do.

But again, amazing this time of the night you can give me all this advice.
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What do you mean by “over washed grout”?

 

[J Sid]

He has used to much wash when washing of the grout and washed of to early. This extra water wash the colour out and leaves it patchy and lighter.

Tell him your concerns and what your not happy with and see what he says.

 

[Locornwall]

Oh so that’s why it’s not grey, like it should be. It looks a lot worse in real. Grout is also uneven and bumpy everywhere.

 

[Time's Ran Out]

In the time scale you have mentioned the grout will not have fully dried to it’s final colour yet - can take 3-4 days!
However the cuts are bad, as a new build it would have been easier to programme the work for the tiling BEFORE the skirtings are fitted.
If he suggested you finish the grouting yourself I’d ensure he didn’t get paid till you were happy with the completed job.

 

[Locornwall]

Well, unless he redos all the tiles, which would then mean there wouldn’t be a thick layer of grout between the tile and wall, I am not sure I will pay him. If he wishes to take it to court then I’m willing to go there. I may suggest we go 50/50 on paying an independent expert to evaluate his work. Sounds reasonable?
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By the way, he also did upstairs wall and floor tiles. The floor tiles were supposed to be grouted in the same gun metal colour. He said he did this, but after a week they are still a cream colour. Therefore, I am confident the grout downstairs will remain the same patchy colours. Do you think I should pay him for the upstairs but query the downstairs or just refuse to pay until all work is completed to a satisfactory professional standard?

 

[Locornwall]

Regarding my above situation. I used a builder to do the tiling work, as he has people work for him I thought would be good enough for the job and he advertises he does tiling work. Is this an issue when it comes to payment and potential court action?

 

[Dan]

I can't say we can really get involved with that side of it.

I've just posted about what a builder is in THIS post. That's another poor sod who didn't get a tiler in and used a builder instead.

Half the blame has to be on the customer sometimes I feel. Not enough research. When people spend £3000 on a car they research it. Not sure why they don't when they need a tiler.

Builders undercutting actual tilers everywhere getting more work than actual tilers, but half their jobs aren't done right and about 10% will go wrong to the point of tiles falling off or cracking. I bet we hear about 1%.

It's a bloody shame. I am sorry. But we can't get involved between you and your builder. You need sort it out between you really.

If you want a real tiler though we have a directory, and you can post a job here too.

 

[Locornwall]

Ok thanks, it may come to that. I have a tiler coming on Monday to quote me a price to rectify the builders mistakes. My only thought and question would be whether this would end up in court and a professional person would be required to provide a level of skill if they called themselves a tiler or builder doing tiling work?

 

[Dumbo]

If somebody provides a service it should be to an acceptable standard, just because they are not qualified it doesn't give them a get out of jail free card .

 

[Dan]

Ok thanks, it may come to that. I have a tiler coming on Monday to quote me a price to rectify the builders mistakes. My only thought and question would be whether this would end up in court and a professional person would be required to provide a level of skill if they called themselves a tiler or builder doing tiling work?

We see this quite often. You have to get a report done by either The Tile Association (who get a tiler in) or an independent expert witness (there are companies that do this and have structural engineers and the likes as their guys) and it's costly, takes time, and even if you win and the builder gets told to pay, if he decides not to, back to court you go.

You have some dodgy cuts. You want to get him back to fix them and pay him and you're done.
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If somebody provides a service it should be to an acceptable standard, just because they are not qualified it doesn't give them a get out of jail free card .

It's up to customer to argue that in court though then and it won't wash just saying 'he said she said'. Both sides need prove their case.

We have dozens of threads from both sides of this argument and neither win in court really.

 

[Locornwall]

Thanks Dan, but lots of the tiles are also uneven, there is thick grout around the edge etc. It’s not just dodgy cuts. He hasn’t planned it properly, which means the tile doesn’t quite stretch to the kitchen plinths, meaning he has had to use grout there also.
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if there is a discrepancy between quality of work I am happy to get the tile association in and offer to go 50/50 on their fee. Doesn’t that sound fair?

 

[Dan]

Thanks Dan, but lots of the tiles are also uneven, there is thick grout around the edge etc. It’s not just dodgy cuts. He hasn’t planned it properly, which means the tile doesn’t quite stretch to the kitchen plinths, meaning he has had to use grout there also.
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if there is a discrepancy between quality of work I am happy to get the tile association in and offer to go 50/50 on their fee. Doesn’t that sound fair?

No you will need to pay it in full it's about a grand. Then you use that report in court.

You won't get us agree on here anything so you can print it off and wave it in front of the builder if that's what you're trying to do.

Good luck mate.

 

[Boggs]

You mention the patchy grout and it being gunmetal, so I assume it’s Bal?
I have used Bal grout for many years and Gunmetal has been very popular but I could grout 10 bathrooms and it will be fine and then 1 will be patchy and I have mixed it and washed it exactly the same. 🤷‍♂️

I find going over it with fine wet and dry sandpaper can sort it out.

 

[Locornwall]

Ok thanks. I will do that. I did mention it to the builder before he left, however he told me he would leave me some grout in the bag to do myself. What kind of professional does that?

Yes it is bal.

Sorry Dan, not trying to use this forum against the builder, but I’m a consumer who just wants the job doing properly. It really doesn’t do any tradesmen well when people do bodge jobs like this, as now I wonder whether it would be best just to do it myself. I’d probably have done a better job, without the cost.

 

[Dumbo]

It's up to customer to argue that in court though then and it won't wash just saying 'he said she said'. Both sides need prove their case.
Source URL: Poor tiling job - https://www.tilersforums.com/threads/poor-tiling-job.90106/#post-958845
@Dan you misunderstand what I'm or I misunderstand what you're saying but to rephrase it I'm not on about legal ins and outs of what's a good job just that if you're not qualified to do something doesn't give you licence to produce rubbish work and get away with it .

 

[Locornwall]

My thoughts entirely about not being qualified, producing rubbish work and getting away with it. If I take a risk and ask you to do a job then if it’s not done properly then you won’t get paid. If you do a professional, skilled job then I pay you. Can’t seem fairer than that and tilers on this forum I am sure will agree with me. People are in essence taking work from qualified, experienced tilers. If I were a tiler I wouldn’t be happy with that.

 

[Perfect Tiling]

Going by the state of what can be seen I doubt they are even stuck down properly.....probably dot an dab onto chipboard. They will probably lift up themselves as he's grouted to the skirting so no room for expansion at all....far better to remove skirting....prep floor properly....tile floor with expansion gap and put skirting back on so gaps under it......that way expansion gap can be 4mm to 10mm as its under skirting. I'd stop him from doing the patio as well.....

 

[Locornwall]

Haha. I’m really worried he will want to make amends and end up messing it up even more, costing me money to put right and then re-tile.

 

[Dan]

That's okay then.

Felt like I was about to be printed off then is all. 😜

An actual tiler would have saved you all hassles, but would have cost more than your average "builder" who hasn't actually got any skills at all and isn't trained in anything. Still would have saved you money compared with fixing it using a tiler in the end anyway.

A lot of tilers won't repair somebody else's work they will want to do it fresh if their name is going next to it. For this exact reason. You're only as good as your last job and all that.

I totally understand you too @jcrtiling - I just wish we were here during the quoting stage more often rather than the 'is this job any good' stage.

I'm working on that though

 

[Locornwall]

If I’m honest there appears to be an absolute lack of tilers in my area. I called plenty and most were busy or quoted silly money. I’m not just talking about more than the builder, but ridiculously more. If I were going into a trade, I’d become a tiler tomorrow, but I’d take a lot of pride in my work.

 

[Dan]

If you got a few quotes and listened to them, you'd be able spot who's coming in low for the cash, and who's actually a tiler.

Then the rate is what it is.

Tilers aren't after much. A day rate isn't a lot for a tiler if you supply all materials. They're not 5,6,7 years training like electricians and gas plumbers.

So I can't see many overpricing.

Got a thread here on it: Tiling Rates Per Square Meter / Per Day - How much do tilers charge? - https://www.tilersforums.com/threads/tiling-rates-per-square-meter-per-day-how-much-do-tilers-charge.88682/

It hasn't saved you money in the end. And you're talking about spending a grand on a report. Doesn't make sense. Should have got the tilers in IMO.

3 of the latest 10 threads are tiling gone wrong threads. It's a real shame. But I have to pass some blame onto the customer when they're just going for the cheapest guy.

 

[Stu Lilley]

Shocking work....I would save up and get a real tiler to take up and redo ...dont Waste money trying to tart it up ...silk purses and pigs ears