Dry cutting porcelain tiles

[Fraser Tiling]

I'm fixing about 90 metres of 10mm 800x800 porcelain tiles at the moment, using a Rubi Tx 1200 cutter.
As per usual with large format porcelain, getting clean consistent cuts is very hit and miss.
Decided to change my normal 22mm wheel for a bearinged version to see if that made any difference.
As expected, little changed.
Generally, as a rule I have ever only scored once, some tiles responding better to a light score, others with a heavier score.
Having no decent results with either, i tried scoring 4-5 times with heavy pressure and seem to get much better results.
Just wondering if anyone else is doing the same?

 

[Fraser Tiling]

depending what surface you are cutting if its smooth i would start with a 6 mm wheel it gives a far sharper
fracture line and deeper a little oil will let it run a lot smoother

Just got my van back from being repaired after a mechanic didnt shut the bonnet properly and it flew open at 70mph.
Found two 8mm Tx wheels, so will try them tomorrow.
Today I've been scoring 5-6 times per cut and appears to be working.
Short term solution but will suffice till I organise new cutting platform.
The tiles aren't flat, slighty textured imitating a polished concrete, an no more visible cuts left to do, so major panic over.
However, before I do my next plus 600mm 10mm porc floor, i will def sort a new cutting platform.
What concerns me more is the amount of travel in the rails mid cut to obtain even pressure.
In my experience with large porc tiles they all require a slighty different amount of pressure to get best results, and these particular tiles are more testing than normal.
Thanks for your help, I work by myself mostly, so dont get much chance to pick others tilers brains on problematic issues,
so your help is appreciated.

 

[One Day]

Are the tiles by Florim by any chance?

 

[Fraser Tiling]

Are the tiles by Florim by any chance?

Unsure, didn't supply them, came from somewhere in Watford.
Horrendous looking tiles in my opinion, have a varying dark grey edge on some of the tiles. I refused to lay them until the customer confirmed she was aware of the design.

 

[One Day]

Hard to tell, although they could be Florim boxes there. 2 to a box.
If they are, then the last lot I fixed were very awkward.
I had to score quite a lot harder than usual - still just once though - and break them quickly and firmly.
Had good results though in the end...

 

[One Day]

Yes - just got a zoom on the boxes - it says Rex - Florim.
Damn nasty expensive porcelain I found.
Show them who's boss - score really hard and break hard and fast.
It worked for me...

 

[macten]

I cutting 1200x600 10mm glazed porcs using 8mm wheel - Only scoring once but needs a lot of pressure.

 

[Fraser Tiling]

Today I set up a platform on two saw horses, supported 18mm ply with two 100x50 timbers under it for rigidity.
Swapped the 22mm bearing scoring wheel for an 8mm and WD40'd the lot.
Applied alot of pressure, scored once, and again the tile only partly snapped about 100mm from the top.
Gone back to scoring a few times and they break well every time.
Annoying they wont break with just one score, but hey, whatever works.

 

[Italy]

It serves at least 8 mm, for that type of surface.
but I would opt for the 10.

 

[Fraser Tiling]

It serves at least 8 mm, for that type of surface.
but I would opt for the 10.

Thats a 6, 8 and now 10mm wheel thats been suggested!
Just spent 50 notes on two 22mm bearing wheels, looking forward to using them one day....

 

[hmtiling]

I mainly use a gold 18mm wheel on my tx1200

 

[Fraser Tiling]

I mainly use a gold 18mm wheel on my tx1200

I went for the 22mm bearing wheels coz Trade Tiler said they were a "must".
Quite enjoying my new Rubi Giant 20mm notched trowel though.
Will end up with forearms like Popeye, but gives good results..

 

[Italy]

Thats a 6, 8 and now 10mm wheel thats been suggested!
Just spent 50 notes on two 22mm bearing wheels, looking forward to using them one day....

I am left, 10 mm. much years ago, it was the max
the past several years, from last rubi purchased

 

[Rizzle from the Portizzle]

if its double loading ie small layer of porcelain on top with 7 to 8mm bottom layer try scribing the top first then turn it over and scribe the bottom break from the bottom try this on a few of your off cuts see if that does the trick .some times you just have to work out what works .when you cut these are there little black spots in the bottom layer when you break the tile .when you set a bench up for cutting dont do it to high you should still have a little clearance between were your legs meet you need down ward force and be able to move with balance and
speed .to high you wont get the right pressure down with movement .it takes a little playing with but you will
know when you get it right it will just flow

 

[widler]

Some porca will not cut with just one score , some porca will not cut with any amount of scores, its not you or the machine its the tile

 

[Fraser Tiling]

if its double loading ie small layer of porcelain on top with 7 to 8mm bottom layer try scribing the top first then turn it over and scribe the bottom break from the bottom try this on a few of your off cuts see if that does the trick .some times you just have to work out what works .when you cut these are there little black spots in the bottom layer when you break the tile .when you set a bench up for cutting dont do it to high you should still have a little clearance between were your legs meet you need down ward force and be able to move with balance and
speed .to high you wont get the right pressure down with movement .it takes a little playing with but you will
know when you get it right it will just flow

Thanks for the tips Ray, unsure of what the double loading bit means, and will look for black bits tomorrow.
To be fair the platform is a little high, set on two Stanley fold up workhorses, plus 50mm timbers and then 18mm ply.
Have a busy day tomorrow after being informed today that the kitchen is being delivered on thursday and need to complete 20 metres of a Himalayian floor before it gets here.
Will take a few pics tomorrow of cuts to see if you can identify the problem.
Was thinking perhaps the depth of the shaft on the scoring wheel may have something to do with it.
Seems there are so many variables, for now multiple scores work, so will continue doing that.

 

[LM]

Throw the Rubi in the sea!(as Antonio would say) and get a Sigma! Rubi's can't handle big stuff as well as a Sigma can.

 

[Fraser Tiling]

Some porca will not cut with just one score , some porca will not cut with any amount of scores, its not you or the machine its the tile

To be fair, in the past I've come against some infuriating tiles that wont dry cut, and even when hand grindered have still broken when cut anywhere near the centre of the tile.
Some tiles cut easily other just f***ing dont.
But understanding why and how to identify the problem would be a god send.

 

[Fraser Tiling]

Throw the Rubi in the sea!(as Antonio would say) and get a Sigma! Rubi's can't handle big stuff as well as a Sigma can.

No worries Lee, you BACS me the cost price, and I'll give it a burial at sea off Perranporth beach.

 

[Rizzle from the Portizzle]

To be fair, in the past I've come against some infuriating tiles that wont dry cut, and even when hand grindered have still broken when cut anywhere near the centre of the tile.
Some tiles cut easily other just f***ing dont.
But understanding why and how to identify the problem would be a god send.

there are a lot of tiles today were the pure porcelain has been replaced by clinker to bring the price down
but has added to the tilers work load they call these eco friendly made with waste martial so they make bad tiles
then have them crushed and added to new tiles that you cant cut so there waste they use again
waste is at least 15% higher on these tiles as you cant cut them plus the energy to make them twice you
could not make this up eco bull .i will let you work out witch country is doing this big. should not take any of you long

 

[Fraser Tiling]

there are a lot of tiles today were the pure porcelain has been replaced by clinker to bring the price down
but has added to the tilers work load they call these eco friendly made with waste martial so they make bad tiles
then have them crushed and added to new tiles that you cant cut so there waste they use again
waste is at least 15% higher on these tiles as you cant cut them plus the energy to make them twice you
could not make this up eco bull .i will let you work out witch country is doing this big. should not take any of you long

So are you saying that some tiles just wont cut well?
Am I looking for an equation that doesn't apply to all tiles?
I was taught by two third generation tilers nearly 25 years ago, when porc first became common they used to say that the new porc tiles should be referred to as porc gres, and shouldnt be confused with real porc.
Personally I have never fixed real porc.

 

[LM]

there are a lot of tiles today were the pure porcelain has been replaced by clinker to bring the price down
but has added to the tilers work load they call these eco friendly made with waste martial so they make bad tiles
then have them crushed and added to new tiles that you cant cut so there waste they use again
waste is at least 15% higher on these tiles as you cant cut them plus the energy to make them twice you
could not make this up eco bull .i will let you work out witch country is doing this big. should not take any of you long

I have to say Ray you have explained this type of direction by manufacturers on a few ocassions and it makes perfect sense. Without this sort of insight how would your typical 5"8 know what the hell the manufacturers are at? It's helpful knowing this side of the manufacturing process when trying to convince clients as to which tile to select over others.

 

[Rizzle from the Portizzle]

this is a hard as there are so many at this at the moment and its growing not all telling the truth
best bet for you is to insist that before you price a job they must have a sample on site that you can test cut
all sizes 600x600 and above look for the double loading first .its 20 -80 at the moment but will grow
as more architects are looking for how much of a tile has been recycled they are looking for 10%
and above look out for these do not price a job untill you had tried to cut one

 

[Fraser Tiling]

this is a hard as there are so many at this at the moment and its growing not all telling the truth
best bet for you is to insist that before you price a job they must have a sample on site that you can test cut
all sizes 600x600 and above look for the double loading first .its 20 -80 at the moment but will grow
as more architects are looking for how much of a tile has been recycled they are looking for 10%
and above look out for these do not price a job untill you had tried to cut one

Most of my customers are small builders, usually have to stick to a price before the tiles are chosen, and they want the tiles laid the day after the delivery!
If I said the price could change if the tiles were tricky to cut, I'd be laughed off site.
Builders understand very large tiles can be an issue to lay, and if customers are considering them then tilers need to be told, but getting samples for cutting tests would be difficult.
In an ideal world that would be great, but highly unlikely on most jobs.

 

[Rizzle from the Portizzle]

dont believe for one second what your small builders tell you they have more extras in there price than you can shake a stick at .just they keep them for them selfs .so whats the answer 15% more if they dont cut well and you have to use a wet saw .most builders price for 300x300 or 600x300 any think else is an extra.so whats the answer take them back to the tile shop and ask them to cut one with the builder present.its the only

 

[One Day]

Great advice Ray.
I have a disclaimer in my quotes (which are signed or emailed back as acceptance of contract).

In a nutshell it goes something like this:
"A note on the quality of tiles: Occasionally we are faced with tiles and stone of such a poor quality that additional charges for time must be made. Naturally, we will endeavor to assess the quality of your tiles or stone BEFORE quoting or estimating for fixing. If the quotation or estimate is based on having NOT seen the tiles or stone then we reserve the right to charge for additional time as may be required."

This has allowed me to charge enough extra to cover my faffing around quite a few times now.

 

[Fraser Tiling]

I have never given a written quote with my own terms and conditions in all my years of tiling.
The thought of being able to demand quality of substrates, tile quality, charging for return visits due to tile shortages, last minute delays in starting jobs or any other extras you can think of would be a joy.
But doubt whether many customers or builders would sign it.
Doubt most issues would stand up in court either.

 

[hmtiling]

Great advice Ray.
I have a disclaimer in my quotes (which are signed or emailed back as acceptance of contract).

In a nutshell it goes something like this:
"A note on the quality of tiles: Occasionally we are faced with tiles and stone of such a poor quality that additional charges for time must be made. Naturally, we will endeavor to assess the quality of your tiles or stone BEFORE quoting or estimating for fixing. If the quotation or estimate is based on having NOT seen the tiles or stone then we reserve the right to charge for additional time as may be required."

This has allowed me to charge enough extra to cover my faffing around quite a few times now.

That's a great t&c impish. Gonna have to tack that on to my quotes. I imagine we've all had a few tiles that have added hours of work to the job.

 

[One Day]

I have never given a written quote with my own terms and conditions in all my years of tiling.
The thought of being able to demand quality of substrates, tile quality, charging for return visits due to tile shortages, last minute delays in starting jobs or any other extras you can think of would be a joy.
But doubt whether many customers or builders would sign it.
Doubt most issues would stand up in court either.

I've only ever in 9 years using them, had one refuse to accept them. She then went on to commit insurance fraud and rip off the tiler who took the work.
I also doubt it would hold up legally but it's a strong reminder for them and when you increase the final bill slightly (never taking the mick) it helps ease the pain.

 

[Italy]

Throw the Rubi in the sea!(as Antonio would say) and get a Sigma! Rubi's can't handle big stuff as well as a Sigma can.

not drag me into this mess.
I'm becoming a man battipav

 

[Italy]

as I understand it.
given that Florim Group, (rex, Floorgres, casabella), is one of the best brands in Italy (and beyond), the tile is pure porcelain. (Just turn the tile to understand).
in my life it has happened 2 times, failing to make cuts, and each time, the brand of tiles, has paid compensation to a tiler, for the time lost. (Wrong cooking or other problems).
I also say the brand , ceramiche ragno