dot and dab and the tile association - Tile Advice

[Spud]

I am putting this in here as its part of a court case where the builder has asked Don Slade from the tile association to be an expert witness in a court case against a tiler ,the case is finishing tomorrow and the buider called me today to hgive me a brief outline of how the proceedings went,
first a backgrund of the job
1000 x 1000 tiles tiled to the ground floor of a house in cockfosters rd, hadley wood I wont mention the tiling contractors name albeit he is very experienced and does deliver a top finish to his work but uses dot and dab as his method of fixing,
his last 3 jobs have failed for this builder but this job was used as a test case and the bulkder is trying to recover £30,000 pounds to replace the floor
so 1m x 1m tiles on fibre re-inforced screed with wet system ufh as I say the tile association have supplied a report and Don slade appeared in court where he was cross examined by the defence barrister ,when he was asked if dot and dab was a satisfactory method of fixing he replied its not the best method but it is an acceptable method, when asked if it caused the failure of the floor he replied it wasnt but may have been a contributing factor asked when the tiles should have had a 100% solid bed he replied 80-100% is recommended and at the coverage you could drive a forklift over but 50 % is okay as the adhesive strength is pro rata to which the defence barrister said so you could drive half a fork lift over which he agredd ,his final reply was that in 30 years of fixing experience he had never seen a failure that has been caused by dot and dab fixing
The contractor has claimed thermal shock which has caused the failure there is no more evidence allowed to be submitted at this stage and the judge makes his decision tomorrow ,which will be very interesting for all in the industry ,
The bulider who now uses me as his tiler is going to forward me the report and will be forwarding me the transcript from the court case as this is all second hand information i am relaying from the telephone call we had this morning ,the builder feels like he has been kicked in the balls by the tile association who are supposed to be trying to eliminate the cowboys out of the tiling industry and it seems are now endorsing dot and dab as a method of fixing on underfloor heating,please can we keep this in the Trusted advisors forum until after the court case is finished

 

[Gazzer]

Bloody hell....who would have thought it ?

So what is this all about, Is dot and dab fixing OK?

"
[h=1]Is dot and dab fixing OK?[/h] No!
The British Standard for tiling, BS5385, the code of practice for fixing wall and floor tiles offers guidance on how tiles should be fixed. The guidance below is taken from The Tile Association guide to DIY fixing, Tile it Right, and encompasses the guidance in the British Standard.
[h=2]Walls[/h] Spread the wall tile adhesive using a tile adhesive trowel onto the wall. Work in small areas a metre at a time, so that tiles are fixed before the surface of the adhesive forms a skin. Press and twist the wall tiles into the adhesive starting at the bottom and working upwards, one row of whole tiles at a time, using spacers (if required) to ensure a uniform joint. Check the horizontal and vertical lines with the spirit level every few rows.
[h=2]Floors[/h] Mix floor adhesive as per manufacturers' instructions and spread with the recommended notched trowel to give a ribbed adhesive bed on the surface to be tiled. Butter the back of each tile with a thin layer of adhesive immediately before bedding it firmly into the fresh ribbed adhesive bed with a slight twisting motion to ensure a solid bed and prevent voids under the tile.
Some "solid bedding" trowels and pourable adhesives are available that allow the floor tile to be solidly bedded without the need to butter the back of the tiles. If you want to be sure of a good quality tiling job, use the services of a Tile Association fixer member."

 

[Stewart]

If that's true then the TTA are a sham.... Is this tile contractor a member of the TTA Gary, if so, then they may be trying to defend one of their members with disastrous consequences IMO. Once the precedent has been set, then cowboys have won...!


Created on iPhone.....

 

[The Legend; Phil Hobson RIP]

Very strange that Gary, I will be seeing Bob Howard on Wed, at the fixer training committee. As Bob is one of four people along with Don in the UK who are supposedly qualified to do a report for the TTA. I will ask him about this case, are people paying £1,000.00 to be told dot and dab is an acceptable fixing method?.:mad2:

 

[Spud]

I know Neale and the bulider oriuginally asked me to be his expert witness ,I remember Phil saying that there were only 2-3 tilers who had the relevant quailifications to appear as expert witnesses so I told the builder to use the tile association and mentioned that Mr. Slade was the person Phil had mentioned as being qualified ,the tiles have not been back buttered it is pure spot fixing at its worst and the coverage isnt even 50 % the tiler has argued that this is an acceptable fixing method and it seems as if Mr Slade is in agreement ,I have told the builder that i disagree and asked him to forward the report and case proceedings as it may be that the barrister asked yes or no questions in a clever way to get the answers he wanted but from what the builder says its seems as if the 30 years fixing tiles and never seen dot and dab fail was his opinion on this matter

 

[Spud]

If that's true then the TTA are a sham.... Is this tile contractor a member of the TTA Gary, if so, then they may be trying to defend one of their members with disastrous consequences IMO. Once the precedent has been set, then cowboys have won...!


Created on iPhone.....

No Not a TTA member

 

[Spud]

Very strange that Gary, I will be seeing Bob Howard on Wed, at the fixer training committee. As Bob is one of four people along with Don in the UK who are supposedly qualified to do a report for the TTA. I will ask him about this case, are people paying £1,000.00 to be told dot and dab is an acceptable fixing method?.:mad2:

I will P.M you the details of the contractor and builder

 

[hillhead]

Unreal, I have lifted quite a few floors now in my 7 years tiling career that were dot and dabbed and was even asked to do it by a customer once.lol.
Walls I rip off too are quite regularly dot and dabbed with no bloody problems.
Keep us up to date with this Gary and thank you for letting us know.

 

[The Legend; Phil Hobson RIP]

Thanks Gary, as I said in my reply I don't know Don Slade personally, but if he is letting a smart *** lawyer put words in his mouth, he is in the wrong job. I will let you know Bob's opinion on this.

 

[nybor62]

1. 0 to the lawyer so far, i have a bad feeling of the outcome of this trial

 

[Colour Republic]

:mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2:

 

[DHTiling]

Not good news... look forward to the outcome..

 

[White Room]

This ai'nt looking good....

 

[Olz]

Presumably the builder got a copy of the TTA report before they ended up at court though, what did the report say caused the failure and about dot and dab, the same as what the guy has said in court or has he changed his stand point when questioned by the solicitor?

 

[Dan]

This is shocking! I could write a good blog about this once it's all over!