Cracked Grout - Tile Advice

[natalie stanley]

Good morning

I'm hoping somebody can help and give me a good honest opinion.


May last I had my kitchen tiled. The subfloor is 18mm ply with ditra.

Shortly after the floor was finished around a month later I noticed a crack in the grout running horizontally by the back door. It seems to coincide with where the ply underneath meets. The tiler said it wasn't abnormal to have cracks. It hasn't got worse but I am curious to understand why it's happened. By the doors to the back door part of the floor is concrete. I have photos to show the they didn't ditra over the concrete so half the tile is on concrete and the other on play and ditra. The crack is running a along the grout line after that tile. Thoughts? Another tiler seems to think it's because they didn't ditra over the concrete.

At the other end of the kitchen there are cracks running along the grout where the grout meets the old wooden stairs. I'm particularly concerned by this as the tiled floor directly where the cracked grout is make a little creaky noise when walked on. Not all the time but sometimes. I'm not entirely sure if it's the old stairs creaking or the ply underneath. Having looked online it says that sanded caulk should be used when grouting next to wood.

I have had the tiler who carried out the work back around however he thinks the cracks aren't a sign of anything bad but of course he would say that. He seems to think an old house such as mine has movement which could cause cracks in the grout..

Any thoughts you can share would be greatly appreciated. I've attached some pictures so you can see how the cracks look and may help you advise..

Thanks in advance

Nat

 

[J Sid]

Should have been an expansion / movement joint at intersection of wooden floor and concrete.
Should have been a movement joint round perimeter of room, silicon joint.
Both cases, tiler error
Floor creaking equals movement, floor was not correctly prepared before tiling, was ply fix correctly? Was joints solid enough? Or has something moved after tiling was finished?

 

[Bill]

Not abnormal to have grout cracks where there is large movement - like against doorways. Simple solution would be to replace the cracked (not really cracked but moved) joint with a good quality mastic.

 

[natalie stanley]

Should have been an expansion / movement joint at intersection of wooden floor and concrete.
Should have been a movement joint round perimeter of room, silicon joint.
Both cases, tiler error
Floor creaking equals movement, floor was not correctly prepared before tiling, was ply fix correctly? Was joints solid enough? Or has something moved after tiling was finished?

Should have been an expansion / movement joint at intersection of wooden floor and concrete.
Should have been a movement joint round perimeter of room, silicon joint.
Both cases, tiler error
Floor creaking equals movement, floor was not correctly prepared before tiling, was ply fix correctly? Was joints solid enough? Or has something moved after tiling was finished?

Not abnormal to have grout cracks where there is large movement - like against doorways. Simple solution would be to replace the cracked (not really cracked but moved) joint with a good quality mastic.

Should have been an expansion / movement joint at intersection of wooden floor and concrete.
Should have been a movement joint round perimeter of room, silicon joint.
Both cases, tiler error
Floor creaking equals movement, floor was not correctly prepared before tiling, was ply fix correctly? Was joints solid enough? Or has something moved after tiling was finished?

The tilers did the subfloor, strengthened it too but I dot have pictures of that particular area of subfloor whilst it was being done. As I said I can't tell if the creaks are coming from the floor or stairs. I have a builder friend (who's very experienced) and he seems to think the creaks are coming from the stairs.

If I replace the cracked grout where the stairs and tile meet, with caulk would that not work? I've read online that, that should be used between wood and tile..

Thanks

 

[J Sid]

Not chalk but a good quality silicon to match grout colour.
If the floor is moving this may still give problems later with tiles coming loose. High foot fall area at base of stairs

 

[Bill]

Yeah, use a good caulk though.

 

[natalie stanley]

Not abnormal to have grout cracks where there is large movement - like against doorways. Simple solution would be to replace the cracked (not really cracked but moved) joint with a good quality mastic.

Thanks for your reply - can you clarify what you mean by movement 'like against doorways' there's a set of 3 stairs that lead from the tiled floor to the hallway. Obviously us walking on the stairs could have an impact on the grout cracking? A builder friend who came to look said he thought the creaks were coming from the stairs. They're old pine stairs so it's not unusual for there to be some Movement..

 

[natalie stanley]

Not chalk but a good quality silicon to match grout colour.
If the floor is moving this may still give problems later with tiles coming loose. High foot fall area at base of stairs

The tilers did the floor, if it's moving surely they're responsible? The invoice for the job says the work is guaranteed so surely they are responsible to silicone/grout as a first step to fixing the problem?

 

[Bill]

The rise on the first tread, that meets the tile will probably be moving every time you step on it - it is timber and it will be flexing - only fractionally but enough to cause the grout joint to displace. Just replace the grout joint with good quality mastic silicone caulk or whatever you want to call it.

Soudal is my mastic of choice.

 

[natalie stanley]

The rise on the first tread, that meets the tile will probably be moving every time you step on it - it is timber and it will be flexing - only fractionally but enough to cause the grout joint to displace. Just replace the grout joint with good quality mastic silicone caulk or whatever you want to call it.

Soudal is my mastic of choice.

Thanks

Thanks Tom will try and see how we get on.

 

[Time's Ran Out]

You will always get movement between different materials especially at the edges where skirting would normally cover this.
Your builder has suggested it's the stairs that's moving so not a tiling issue.
A good honest opinion - If the photos are the worst of the problem then a tube of silicone will alleviate your worries.

 

[natalie stanley]

I hope it's the worst. If I can prove the creak is coming from the stairs I'll be happy. What bothers me, is that the cracks are not just running through the middle of the grout but also at he bottom on the side of the grout, as if the floor tiles are coming away from it..

 

[Bill]

I hope it's the worst. If I can prove the creak is coming from the stairs I'll be happy. What bothers me, is that the cracks are not just running through the middle of the grout but also at he bottom on the side of the grout, as if the floor tiles are coming away from it..

From those photos you have shown, I would not be worried as it looks just like a perimeter movement and not a lateral one that could cause cracks in the tiles. Try not to worry and let your tiler sort it out.

 

[Flintstone]

Grout up to skirting boards is always gonna settle with a slight movement like that, just have him silicone it, job done, if there is no cracks or loose tiles on the floor, stop worrying.

 

[J Sid]

Everyone is assuming there is no bounce or movement on the 18mm ply floor, a bit thin I think if going over joists.
What was the ply fixed to? Joists? Chipboard floating floor?, should the floor make up and the possibly of bounce not be ruled out first!
If there is to much movement / bounce in the floor then the first sign of problems would be perimeter cracking at high foot fall area's such as doorways and base of stairs.
Floor may, and I hope it is, be well layed and fine, with just a bit of cracking between tile and wood, which should have been a movement joint anyway.
But if its not, best to find out now before builder / tiler disappears.