Where does responsibility lie? - TilersForums.com

[CMC_EK]

Hi guys

New to this so bear with me...

I have a major problem. My tiler has put tiles on my bathroom wall:

FIRST SESSION: 2 walls around bath
SECOND SESSION: rest of the room

Towards the end of the second session the tiles put above my window are substancially different in colour (pictures don't show it as obviously as real life)



The tiler has said he only noticed this once they were up and he stopped straight away and phoned me at work to come home. On viewing, I agreed that we had a problem. We then both started picking out more subtle but still quite different tiles on the walls that had been tiled during the first session (2 days earlier). This had not been apparent previously. I estimate that around 4-6 tiles on each wall are noticeably different.

We left the tiles up and tiler took an off cut of the different tiles to the retailer. Their desk immediately acknowledged the problem and agreed to look into it. The manufacturers rep was also in the shop and acknowledged the fault. On close inspection the offending tiles look like the inverse of the correct tiles. The correct tiles have raised very small white dimples with what looks like a more peachy coloured groove running between them. The faulty ones have a peachy dimple with white grooves.

Anyway, a week down the line and manufacturer has agreed with retailer to provide a colour matched run of tiles based on a sample we sent to them. I’m happy with this.

However the retailer is claiming no responsibility as they say the tiler should have checked every tile for shading before fixing to wall. They even said he should have laid out all 20m of tiles on floor prior to fixing. I have stated that both myself and tiler carried out reasonable checks – all batch numbers were identical, a broad check of a sample of the tiles appeared the same colour. I know the tiler would check this where possible – he recently tiled our kitchen and laid out all tiles before cutting and fixing and asked us if we were happy with them. Also, many of tiles look fine on initial check – it’s only when you step back and see them all together that you start to pick out the problem tiles.

I believe the tiler carried out reasonable checks (1 or 2 tiles per box of 10, which is certainly more rigorous than retailers QA process) and stopped fixing as soon as fault became apparent. As a result I believe responsibility lies with the retailer for providing the faulty tile and are therefore also liable for “consequential losses” i.e. cost of removal, making walls good and re-tiling.

I have written to retailer asking for them to cover the consequential losses but they have phoned blaming the tiler and citing a lot of clauses on the back of their invoice saying they are not responsible. :mad2:

So it boils down to a couple of questions that I am seeking advice and opinions on:

1. Is it reasonable to expect a tiler to check every single tile before a job? Especially when space is constrained (i.e. around 3m of floor space)

2. Where do you feel responsibility lies - retailer or tiler?

Sorry for this rather rambling post and thanks in advance for you help!!!

 

[easyt]

I would look to the retailer. No matter what the disclaimer is on the boxes the tiles obviously were not fit for purpose as he is replacing them.

See what the pro's think.

 

[jay]

:welcome:
just looking at the pics seems to be a lot of difference in the tiles
why did it take so long to pick up on

 

[akinsontiles]

It's a bit of a nightmare scenario. If you've managed to catch the rep at the shop where you bought them you've done well as they are willing to replace them without argument.

However getting them to pay for the costs incurred will take a long time. Threaten them with a colicitor's letter and an estimated cost for the work and they may back down. Was it a large retailer or an independant?

 

[CMC_EK]

akinsontiles: Thanks - its a pretty big independent up in west of scotland - most of the tilers use them and I've used them for years - disappointed that they are willing to allow that loyalty to just evaporate.

In the letter I've sent to them I have itemised the estimated costs as far as possible at this stage and cited all the legal jargon that consumer direct advised me to include - I get the feeling it's heading to the small claims court though. Legally, I have no claim on manufacturer, only the retailer as they supplied the goods to me under contract.

What about the first question - do you feel the tiler has conducted reasonable checks or should he have checked every tile like the retailer is claiming? What is the norm in the tiling trade when checking wall tiles?

 

[SandyFloor]

I don't think it reasonable for someone to check 200 tiles of the same batch number for colour difference as you would need to lay them all out at once and where would you do that in most cases? I would have thought the retailer should be taking it up with the manufacturer or agent. If you're talking about 20 tiles or so to be changed prior to grouting is it worth any legal costs and grief? Mind you, practically speaking, the difference seems so obvious I'm surprised the tiler didn't spot it a lot sooner.

Does this dealer have an italian name beginning with C?....or maybe italian again beginning with T?

 

[SandyFloor]

I've just thought about it more. You have the cost of replacing the tiles, the immediate delay due to work stopping, the subsequent delay while waiting for replacement tiles and a return visit by the tiler.

 

[jay]

Think you will find the responsibility lies with the tiler and possibly the retailer

if the boxes were marked with matching batch numbers (also there should be caliber tone and shade numbers which also should match ) the retailer has supplied the goods ordered
the tiler who has accepted the goods as suitable to lay after checking batch numbers ect which is checked before fixing also tiler has a better look at tiles when he is mixing boxes to achieve good shading
every tile is laid individual so yes every tile is inspected (checked for defects chips and shading and grain direction )
the manufacture normally states on boxes they will only replace the tiles if found to be faulty not the labor to rectify

 

[CMC_EK]

@jay: the pictures I've put up are the most obvious runs. Can't be certain why it wasn't picked up earlier but tiler says that he had couple of boxes in bathroom and fixed the pipe chase and above window - becuase he was close to tiles when fixing the difference wasn't as obvious - only when he went to get an additional box from downstairs did he come back in and notice.

Having not tiled myself I'm not entirely sure if this is plausible, but have used tiler many times and he has always highlighted small issues and checked with us before fixing so no reason to think he was just hoping we'd not notice. He didn't finish the window and asked me to come round and look rather than continuing so I think he's honest enough. Also, in some light it just doesn't look as bad (although it is always noticeable)

On the other walls the difference is more subtle but once you're eye is tuned in from the window wall, you can pick them out easily on the others.

 

[jay]

we are all human and we all make mistakes as long as we learn from them its okay