Wet Floor Leaking

[scotty9a9]

Hi, We had a wet floor installed on the first floor and has now begun to show leaks which have been making the wall/ceilling below wet. I have included a few pictures so you can see the wetfloor and leak from below.

Given the sheer pain of ripping out the tiles and refitting the wetfloor membrane and underfloor heating the preference is to find another solution by dealing with the problem from below (i,e ceiling / wall). It looks as if the problem is just linked to the water being splashed beyond the edge of the tanking membrane and its just flowing to the lowest point. I have cut a small hole in the edge of the wall/ceiling to see the problem.

Solutions in my preferred order would be-

1) Install a channel in the ceiling (eg think guttering) to drain the water to an external wall. (about 1 and 1/2 meters). Obviously far from ideal and I am sure a no no in a professionals book.
2) Install glass surround to stop water escaping outside membrane. Kind of makes the wet floor redundant.
3) Refit bathroom tiles and tanking

I look forward to your thoughts on bet course of action or if there may be another solution.

S

 

[Mr Tiler]

no pics on show bud.... no you do not want some sort of internal guttering to catch leaking water I know that much lol. over time where the water is getting will get very damaged and will result in a lot more money being spent

 

[Gazzer]

It looks as if the problem is just linked to the water being splashed beyond the edge of the tanking membrane and its just flowing to the lowest point.

S

The lowest point should be your waste outlet ? Need pics to tell more.

 

[Spud]

Have you asked the guys who installed it to take a look at it ?

 

[scotty9a9]

Attached are the pics. Sorry for not putting on oirginal post.

Guys who put in are not returning calls. After they did a range of things around the place not convinced I would want them back in any event.

The tiler seemed good although he did not put in the tanking.

 

[Mr Tiler]

who did put the tanking in? or are you saying there's none at all?

 

[scotty9a9]

There is tanking but I believe they only put it in out about 1.2-1.4 m and the water is splashing well beyond that when showering. Unfortunately I do not have the name of the tank/membrane kit to hand.

 

[Chalker]

Tiling looks ok. It could be the waste fitting.easiest way to check this is to remove the chrome waste trom and insert just the shower hose. Run this so water is only going into the waste. If water appears below you have a waste problem. This can be repaired from below.

 

[scotty9a9]

thanks for this. After a few tests unfortunately it looks like the problem is not linked to the waste fitting. Most water seems to drip below when the walls of the shower cubicle are splashed.

Perhaps they did not tank the walls fully with the membrane is my thinking.

This is bad news as insurance seems like they will only pay to make good the plastering if the leak results from an escape of water from a pipe. They will not pay for shoddy workmanship which looks like might be the case for us here. Looks like the company that did the job has subsequently closed.

After this episode am thinking of just installing a traditional shower unit to be more certain that future leaks will not arise.

Any thoughts on best way forward or something I may be missing are welcome.

 

[Gazzer]

Then put the hose on the floor without wetting the walls. Isolate the problem 1st .

 

[scotty9a9]

So I have isolated the leaks to both the front and rear walls and some of the floor. In effect the only part that seems to hold water with no leaking is around the drain and about 40 centimetres around that.

All in all looks like quite a bodge job and given this not sure I can trust another wet floor installation.

 

[Mr Tiler]

is that bad tiling Neale? surely the water shouldn't be getting even beyond the tiles never mind the bad tanking to that extent? is there silicone on the internal joints?

 

[Martyn Leeds]

Is it all silicone correctly? internal corners etc?
or perhaps just grouted??

 

[scotty9a9]

There is mastic on the external joints but unfortunately I am not sure what they did in fitting internally. The tiles are natural stone so maybe its properties are not the best for wet rooms.

If it helps all the water all runs down into the one spot at the edge irrespective of whether the side or rear wall or part of the floor is made wet. That's why originally I was thinking of some way of draining this leak externally.

 

[scotty9a9]

I also remember the builders mentioning that they were using sika waterproofer on the walls but after looking at their webpage not sure exactly what product they used.

Perhaps as the leak appears to be coming from the one spot directly at the edge of the wall and the subfloor (chipboard) that they put in would it be worth trying to insert some [h=3]Sika® Finishing Mortar to try to fill the gap and stop the leak? I guess I am clutching at straws and this will just push the water to escape somewhere else although would be good to have your thoughts.[/h]
It just seems all the water is funnelling to the edge of this chipboard and existing wall.

Thanks for all your help with this. It is much appreciated.

 

[Mr Tiler]

Run your finger nail down the internal corners mate if it fees like cement its either grout or sealent but if it feels rubbery its silicone it sounds like it could be grout cracking on the internal joints or bad silicone. Unless the natural stone hasn't been sealed but I can't comment there as I have no experience. Hope it helps ya bud shame cuz it looks really nice and I bet it wasn't cheap!

 

[Sean SML Tiling]

What type of tile are they?

 

[beanz]

Take a good look at the silicone, maybe even take some photos. Even if they've siliconed the internal corners, I doubt they used a neutral curing silicone, so it'll come away from the stone anyway.

Ash, silicone is sealant.

 

[Sean SML Tiling]

I was just about to mention that beanz lol they do look like a stone tile.

 

[Mr Tiler]

Take a good look at the silicone, maybe even take some photos. Even if they've siliconed the internal corners, I doubt they used a neutral curing silicone, so it'll come away from the stone anyway.

Ash, silicone is sealant.

silicone is a sealent but sealent isn't a silicone. I used sealent doesn't dry like silicone its like half silicone half grout.... And it doesn't work well lol

 

[Mr Tiler]

Well b&q all purpose water resistant sealant is not silicone lol may be just as it would s there brand mate sorry if I'm wrong

 

[cam_low]

I think you need to get the guys in who installed this. Realistically they should be repairing this whole issue.

 

[cr0ft]

Doesn't stone need to be resealed every 6 months or so in a wetroom? From what I've read on the back of the sealer bottles before it says they have to be re-applied fairly regularly.

Also, check the sealant on internal joints carefully. It's quite possible when you get your head down to floor level that it may have come away from the bottom row of tiles, especially if there is any movement in the floor.

If the waste is watertight though then this is ultimately down to tanking failure. Even if water is getting behind the tiles the tanking should retain it in the room. With modern high pressure showers some water will always get through a cement grout. They are marketed as waterproof but all this means is that if you wet the grout with water it will dry off again without discolouration or damage. Cement grouts let water through pretty easily, hence the need for tanking.

One option may be to regrout the wetroom with an epoxy grout and reseal it with decent silicone sealant, something like BAL Microban. This coupled with resealing the stone should sort the problem but will be a time consuming job.

 

[scotty9a9]

Good suggestion. I will reseal the tiles again and see what impact that has.

In terms of regrouting option I am going to show my ignorance here. What the best option for removing existing grout or do you just grout over the existing with a thin layer?

many thanks

 

[Chalker]

Can you post a picture of an internal corner.? As close as you can get. I bet that's where the problem lies.

 

[andy8758]

With respect to all the guys who are answering with suggestions, the waterproofing in the wet room needs to be underneath the tiles - silicone and tile sealers are not designed to be waterproofing solutions - there is no problem in installing natural stone as a surface dressing in a wet room, natural stone tiles are not waterproof but many other tiles and nearly all grout is not waterproof either.

The amount of water damage indicates a significant waterproofing failure - hence suggestion on checking waste first (imho it is the commonest source of wet room leaks), and also supply pipes (were the fittings tested for water-tightness before panels and tiles installed?). If that is not the cause of the leaks then it is a failure of the tanking system (either good quality panels properly installed or a tanking solution system applied strictly to manufacturers instructions). If the tanking system is not correctly installed then the tiles have to come off and the room re-waterproofed.

The installer of your wetroom needs to take responsibility to locate the source of the leak and fix it. They should be conducting the tests to isolate the leak - if I was them I would be removing a section of the ceiling below, and replicating the water leak to identify the problem (ceiling removal in your case looks easiest option for identifying leak without causing expensive damage).

 

[kilty55]

what was the make up of the sub floor and was a wetroom shower tray fitted

 

[Thepipdoc]

The installer of your wetroom needs to take responsibility to locate the source of the leak and fix it. They should be conducting the tests to isolate the leak - if I was them I would be removing a section of the ceiling below, and replicating the water leak to identify the problem

,

Looks like the company that did the job has subsequently closed.

 

[afright]

I,ve had a problem like this before on a wet room that I had done,first thing poured water over the floor no leak,then poured water on to the walls no leak, it turned out to be the shower control,might be worth checking that.

 

[cr0ft]

Good suggestion. I will reseal the tiles again and see what impact that has.

In terms of regrouting option I am going to show my ignorance here. What the best option for removing existing grout or do you just grout over the existing with a thin layer?

many thanks

Please don't misunderstand me. You still have a tanking failure to deal with. It may always have been there and if it's been ages since the stone has been sealed more and more water is now getting through. It's a relatively cheap option to try resealing the stone and seeing what effect that has.

An epoxy grout will further reduce water wicking through the walls but this is definitely not a DIY job. Make sure whoever does the grouting thoroughly reseals the stone first to prevent it staining.

The old grout needs to come out completely really for a good job. A carefully used Fein Multimaster or similar tool makes relatively quick work of this horrible job.

If you want the job done properly though you need to start lifting tiles (carefully to avoid damaging tanking) around where the water is coming through the ceiling and inspect the tanking/repair as required. It is possible to avoid damaging tanking if you are very careful when lifting tiles. It's also possible to repair any damage to tanking as well.