Pietra Serena Sandstone 800x800mm help - TilersForums.com

[Old Mod]

I’m going to have to disagree Stuart I’m afraid.
It’s becauuse of practises like these (lifting tiles with clips) that companies like Ardex are now refusing to honour guarantees against floors laid with clips, because of their improper use.
Clips are not designed to lift tiles, eliminate lippage, yes.
This is done by correctly bedding the piece in question with a full bed and holding it in position until the adhesive sets and no more.
Adhesive is prone to minimal shrinkage on curing and this more often than not, on a well laid floor, is what causes lippage.
So I’m afraid we’ll have to agree to disagree.
This not intended to dig you out, merely give you more information on your install.
You’re to be commended on your level of commitment and research, and indeed the aesthetics of your final finish, however I feel it would be irresponsible of me not to point out that I feel that your knowledge of clip use is in my opinion, is flawed.
I do actually look forward to seeing the final result.
Good luck.

 

[Stuart_AC]

Cheers 3_fall,
I don't disagree with you as that makes perfect sense.

I do think that the clip marketing is a bit off then as it shows tiles being pulled into alignment to eliminate lippage rather than only applying clips to stabilise during curing. That's what probably lulls the unknowledgeable into a false sense of security.

On reflection I think in my situation the clips have been used immediately after a fresh mix - when it was wettest - they hold the tile in place whilst the adhesive sets as the weight of the tile (30kg) can cause it to sink when the adhesive is overly wet. But as I've only used clips on 5 out of 75 tiles it's not something that's happened often.

For the most part the job has been old skool lifting of the tile to either subtract or add adhesive to make it level. Probably every tile comes back up at least once which makes for heavy work!

 

[Old Mod]

As I said Stuart, the post wasn’t intended to dig you out or make you feel uncomfortable, merely to increase your knowledge.
I know all about stone being heavy work.
I now mainly install ex large formats, up to 3.2m in length and clips are essential in this work, and it’s extremely heavy work.
So I do understand your difficulties.
Good luck, and please do come back and show us your finished floor.
Marc.

 

[Stuart_AC]

Hi guys,
I've finished laying the tiles and have applied the pre-grout sealer as discussed earlier in the post.

I'm now grouting with Mapei Keracolour GG 113. I did the first room last night and this morning it still looks wet at the edges (picture attached)

It doesn't feel like grout staining. The grout was smeared over the entire face of the tile so if it was a stain I guess the tile would be consistenly stained.

Is this just moisture that will dry out?

Cheers

 

[Stuart_AC]

Hi all..

Further to my post above the weird wet grout lines were just some staining. I tried to clean it off about 5 days after grouting and it didn't budge then again 10 days (this time with a machine disk cleaner) and it came off.

The tiles had been carefully sealed all over including the edges so not sure what was going on.

 

[Stuart_AC]

I'm now sealing the tiles with the applicable fila products which I'm finding easy to use. However I have some tiles with dark marks/@streaks (about 20 or so tiles out of 180) that won't clean off. I've delayed sealing these as I don't want to seal in a stain. I'm pretty sure this isn't grout staining as I've cleaned them with the disk cleaner and fila detergent. I've also spot cleaned and hand scrubbed one and the mark hasn't budged. I also tried to 'dry' a hidden patch with a heat gun to no avail.

Wondering if this is some sort of moisture/mineral stain from the adhesive that has migrated through the stone from below? I used BAL stone PTB rapid set so thought this wouldn't be an issue.

Any ideas what this is? I've attached a picture of the worst tile.. some are similar and others only have one or two patches.

Thanks for your help in advance..

 

[Bill]

The last photo looks like trapped moisture, judging by the flow it looks like something has dripped/spilt on those tiles without you knowing.

There are some products to help remove things from stone but as this stone is extremely delicate, I would like to promote one without the manufacturer's test.

 

[Bill]

One more point on the grouting, it looks a tad low in the joints and this could lead to problems like - dirt build up, chipping of the edges.

I normally use as stiff a mix as possible for this type of stone/edge as it tends to stand up better in the joint when washing off (so that the sponge doesn't drag too much grout out)

You normally leave grout a lot longer in the joint before washing than you would think but with this stone, it sometimes proves to be a bad idea. Probably should have been thought through better at design stage.......

 

[Stuart_AC]

Thanks for your comments Tom..

There was nothing on site other than buckets of clean water so I'm 100% confident that it's not a spillage. Also as I said it's on about 20 tiles at all through the house so I would have had to spill stuff over and over at different locations. My gut feeling is that it has migrated from under the tile but I have no experience to back this up. Also every so often a tile got particularly messy with adhesive when laying so got quite a soaking when sponging it off. I can't be sure it was those tiles in particular but maybe thats a factor?

I take your point about the grouting... It's actually fine it's just the picture that's taken in really unforgiving light. You'll see that only the left to right grout lines look low but the bottom to top look fine - that's because there's 11m of glass running along this elevation. The low sun at this time of year skims across the surface accentuating even 0.5mm as a shadow. (Annoyingly though the tile on the top right of this picture is the worst on the whole job for lippage).

At the design stage I did consider the 'grimsby double' or 'swiss grouting method' which is to do a second grout pass to completely fill the joint but discouted that for a 2 reasons.. 1st being that grout isn't a wear layer so would erode in high footfall areas, 2nd being that it risks staining the tile doing the second pass.

 

[Bill]

Stuart........ it has nothing to do with the light....the grout joints are low..... Jeesh you don't like critique, do you?

Oh and I also run a photography business so I know all about light.