Pietra Serena Sandstone 800x800mm help - TilersForums.com

[Dumbo]

Builders

Oh and those people that say it won't take you long . Because not only have they assessed how long it's going to take you but they've probably assessed how much you're going to charge them.

Oh and those people that say it won't take you long . Because not only have they assessed how long it's going to take you but they've probably assessed how much you're going to charge them.

And that building company who sent me through some correspondence about a job which contained 61 pages of does and don'ts. I told them I would need a solicitor to read it all so couldn't be bothered .

 

[Lithofin BOB]

Interior designers

 

[J Sid]

Must be more

Interior designers.

 

[J Sid]

Interior designers

great minds

 

[Spud]

Do would seal with w68 too did a pietra serena job and the w68 was outstanding on it

 

[jonnyc]

If only it was as simple as installing 4 large tiles you can walk around in the vid!!!!

Couple of points from me to consider with this stone , moisture has to release fully proir to impregnation ,either from cleaning or instalation. She can bite you!!!

On the attached film ,I am a little confused with the suggestion of impregnating the stone first with a hydrophobic only impregnator , as this then could block further impregnation with the w68 a water based product , which will give you your final water and oil protection.
For me , I would use the w68 for both coats ( prior and after grouting) this will then enable you to give deeper protection with the first saturation and top up with the final application, including your grout,greater protection against oil based staining. I would give fila a call to discuss this on their tech line.

They also recomend a clean with deterdek ( a buffered acid ) be aware ,not all pietra serena is acidic resistant and I have seen many of these floors pitted out with the use of these types of products, ( test first for suitability, it may be fine)

Test your grout release on an un- laid impregnated stone prior to completing any section, be confident you can work in controlled sections to complete and clean away. Impregnators line the capillaries they do not fill them, so grout can still contaminate the face even if fully impregnated and these then will either will require the acidic approach or possible mechanical removal with kgs/ twister type pads .

It's all in the testing

Bob
Not been on for a while but this is interesting thread . The dreaded pietra serena ! Where do you start with this stone bob my friend ?
I know you've attended enough **** ups bob in your time as I have with this stone and I've fixed many serena floors with both presealed in iltaly or uk or unsealed . All I know is that you have to be very careful indeed. So careful in fact that I refuse to fix this stone unless on my terms .
Rapid set adhesive is a must for a start .but given that route taken that's just the start of potential problems .
I won't even consider a job outside if not presealed in italy by quarry.
Fixing stone not a problem for us as long as in rapid set and solid bed . Doesn't matter how you lay bed out as long as solid bed underneath achieved.Notched trowel with stone that can vary few mm is def non no .
The real problems come after fixing .
The only good and easy best result I have had is by using grout that is polymer free regardless of sealer used and how much !!Use a polymer modified grout even if rapid set like Mapei and you will get trouble with staining to face of stone in my experience I'm not Talking picture framing I'm talking staining .
If you just grout the width of squeegee rather than whole face you will see the problem easier . 90 % of stones we lay we cover face of stone because the light staining can cover the problem but with pietra serena it looks terrible with whole face covered or just width of squeegee.
Regarding sealer my preference has been Lithofin stainstop mn inside for last 20 years for all my stone jobs and especially for serena .as much as I like lithofin i would never use stainstop Eco or w on serena inside or out .but I have used fila similar impregnator and others but serena can stain so easily
If polymer modified grout used .
You might suggest that if you don't use polymer modified grout over underfloor heating then you are not going to get a problem . I think not .beware this is is not a job you want to take on without a lot of understanding and experience .
That said walk in to any Apple Store in U.K.
And it looks good evennwitj loads of traffic . What secret do they hold to have exclusivity of good looking product ,

 

[Stuart_AC]

Hi All,
Thought it would be good to give an an update on how I’m getting on with my project. I’m about 1/3 of the way through and thought I’d share some observations.

Tile
Cutting the stone is easy – I bought a cheap ebay bridge saw for £300 which chews through it no problem. A small grinder also makes short work of it.

When handling you have to be careful as the edges are fragile. It’s easy to pop a corner by standing it up without protection. A dollop of paint on the concrete floor even caused enough pressure to chip an edge when a tile was stood up momentarily.

The tolerance of the tile has its own set of challenges. They’re 800x800 but on the odd occasion a tile can be +/- 1mm. So I have to be careful with tile selection when laying. They’re also honed and I’ve found that a few tiles have slightly bowed where the grinding operator has maybe run off the edges a bit too vigorously creating a bowed effect a bit like you’d see in a ceramic. It’s so minor it’s difficult to perceive but it left me scratching my head once or twice when I had 3 corners matching height perfectly and the 4th sitting high or low.

Laying the tile
I’m using BAL PTB Rapid set adhesive and finding it good to use. This stone can be susceptible to moisture staining from the underside if rapid set isn’t used. There’s also the option to mix the PTB with an additive to quicken the set but I didn’t bother with that and have not had any issues.

.... cont

 

[Stuart_AC]

...cont.

I bought a load of Genesis Tile Clips but generally not using them as the tile is so heavy that it snaps the clip before the tile can be pulled level. I’m using the odd one where needed and assist the lift with a trowel as not to snap the clips. Note – it’s only being lifted 1 or 2mm so the theory of lifting a tile clear off the adhesive isn’t an issue. I’ve clipped in tiles and raised them a few mm only to have to lift the tile again for some reason–each tile I’ve checked for adhesive coverage after it has been lifted and it has been ok.

Pretty much every 2nd tile is laid then comes straight back up for some minor scrapping/calibration. There can be a small deviance in the thickness of the tile by +/- 1.5mm. They’re meant to be 20mm so the deviance makes it difficult to be consistent with adhesive to achieve. At the beginning of the adhesive batch (when it’s quite loose) it’s possible to stand on the tile and squash it down. However nearer the end of the batch when it’s stiffer that’s not possible so the tile comes back up. It’s tough getting the tile back up but it’s a good opportunity to see that I’m getting good consistent coverage to the adhesive.

Setting out
If you look back on the thread I said I was planning to lay a master setting out line the length of the house and tile off them. I’ve revised that thought as it’s better to ensure that each group of tiles are level with each without issue before moving onto the next part. Also if I had set up a tiled line then I would have had to ensure clear pockets under the tile clear of adhesive so that the levelling clips can be inserted and be free to move. You can’t bed a clip in at the end of the day and then start the following day as it has to be free to move in order to pull the up the tiles.

Nothing’s grouted yet. I’m planning to follow the procedure and use the products in the video I attached at the beginning of the thread so will let you know how I get on.

 

[Old Mod]

Looks good but a few of your theories about clips are flawed. And you shouldn’t be lifting any tile from the floor with the aid of a clip. You’re putting that piece at risk. Whether it feels like it or not right now. Remove the piece and apply more adhesive. It’s a stone and ultimately weak. Corners will break if they are not fully bedded.

 

[Stuart_AC]

Thanks 3_fall,

I don’t think I have a flawed theory about the clips – more likely I didn’t explain my use of them clearly enough.

My understanding is that the purpose of tile clips is to eliminate lippage by pulling tiles into alignment – which generally involves lifting one of them by 1 or 2mm. If you watch the manufacturer videos that’s what happens. What I’ve found is that the large format sandstone tile is too heavy for the clip to lift (part weight of the stone, part suction of the adhesive over an 800x800 tile).

Where clips were applied (maybe 5 tiles over 75 laid so far) I’ve placed them 100mm in from the corner as not to stress the stone. On a few occasions where I used a clip and it turned out that it was more than a 2mm lift the then the tile was taken up and more adhesive added.

What I was trying to explain is that when a clipped tile (which had been raised 2mm by the clip but it wasn’t enough) was taken up for more adhesive to be added the spread pattern on the floor and tile suggested that the adhesive was giving good coverage even after it had been lifted slightly with a clip.

So I think my theory is right in that a 2mm lift by a clip doesn’t leave the tile without good adhesive coverage. Although that said if your adhesive mix is dryish it might be different. But my tiles are back buttered and the adhesive mixed exactly so that wasn’t an issue.

Generally though we’ve given up on the clips for this job but I can see their benefit for smaller tiles.