Moisture resistant MDF - advice please???? - Tile Advice

[DHTiling]

Lee..as you say adhesive manufactures will not guarantee there adhesives on MDF in wet area's...but that is if tiling onto MDF...If kerdi was used onto MDf then no moisture can penetrate it..thus no problem with delamination or swelling.....that's what tanking membranes are for....I know what you are saying about tiling onto MDf and yes you are right....but using a tanking membrane or similar will do the job no probs......and so will ripping the whole lot off and using backerboards....

 

[Ric]

brill post, very interesting lads, i have bath panel to tile (mdf) with mosaics and was going to use mosaic fix as it says you can as long as not primed , but, it also says dry internal areas. Didn't really want to board over the top as i think it would bring the tile out too far, the kerdi option looks good can u buy as little as a square metres worth?

 

[DHTiling]

brill post, very interesting lads, i have bath panel to tile (mdf) with mosaics and was going to use mosaic fix as it says you can as long as not primed , but, it also says dry internal areas. Didn't really want to board over the top as i think it would bring the tile out too far, the kerdi option looks good can u buy as little as a square metres worth?

You certainly can rik mate......You will get it at CTD.....

 

[tiler burden]

this is why tilers should prepare and advise on substrates when it affects the areas they tile.

general builders are a pain in the r's. i totally agree that there is no way that green mdf should be used in a continual hot/wet area. ok the tanking will prevent water penetration, but moisture can build up behind the tanking area due to condensation and eventually break down the mdf. maybe not in a years time but it can and does happen. australian and american tilers will vouch for that..

any area that has extreme variations to temperature changes can be affected by condensation..if you have ever worked on loft conversions you will realise that the plasterboards in the loft need to have a foil backs to there underside and there has to be a vapour barrier behing them also,,,,this is the same principle really.

the building world is a fast moving enviroment and wedi boards and backer boards have been introduced because they are the best solutions available today.

just make sure that if the tiling fails, then the customer is aware that you cannot give a 100perc gtee because of the mdf that the builder installed, cover you backside and hold him responsible...good on top of bad doesnt necessarily = good??

 

[protilers]

Lee..as you say adhesive manufactures will not guarantee there adhesives on MDF in wet area's...but that is if tiling onto MDF...If kerdi was used onto MDf then no moisture can penetrate it..thus no problem with delamination or swelling.....that's what tanking membranes are for....I know what you are saying about tiling onto MDf and yes you are right....but using a tanking membrane or similar will do the job no probs......and so will ripping the whole lot off and using backerboards....

what about the moisture in the adhesive dave (in the two hours, if rapid,12 hours if normal set adhesive ),as mdf is (kinda) laminated........what if the first 1mm/2mm of mdf blow (expand) from the moisture in the adhesive......the tiles are gonna hold up for a while.......but i would not want to do a tap test (knock,knock!).......
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[grumpygrouter]

what about the moisture in the adhesive dave (in the two hours, if rapid,12 hours if normal set adhesive ),as mdf is (kinda) laminated........what if the first 1mm/2mm of mdf blow (expand) from the moisture in the adhesive......the tiles are gonna hold up for a while.......but i would not want to do a tap test (knock,knock!).......
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Not having been in the trade for very long, I am a little confused by your strong argument about tiling onto MDF. Not so much about tiling onto a wood based product, just that you seem to be implying that BAL, the leading British adhesive manufacturer for tiling are wrong. They quite clearly state in their literature that Mosaic-fix (for instance) can be safely used to tile onto MDF as long as it is done correctly. If you comply with BAL procedures, they will even guarantee the installation for ten years where their products are concerned.

Ardex have a similar assertion with some of their products and I have no doubts other adhesive manufacturers do too.

Weber incidently stipulate that moisture resistant MDF is not a suitable surface to tile onto. Normal stuff apparantly is OK.

Are you saying they are wrong?

Grumpy

 

[protilers]

grumpy......

i just think there is a more economical and stable way to do things,
i typed a bigger post and my internet crashed....sooooooo............
i am not saying anybody is wrong.....anybody...just if you can get from a to b securely (tried and tested) why go to c,d,e and f.....?

p.s mosaic fix is for mosaics? (does as it says on the tin....?)IMO
p.p.s MDF sould not be used in showers or other "wet" areas IMO

what i am saying is if you are a tiler,and your reputation and livlyhood depends on it............m.d.f......is it any good to tile over?

IMO...regardless of the (possible) soloutions.....is it not better to go back to the tried and tested.....i.e ply (which is still risky....will create a post) ,wedi etc..........
if not for the customer, then for your reputation as a professional tiler.....you can offer value for money and a professional job....... and a guarentee......

p.p.s adhesive manafacturers are never wrong....ever...........it will always be your fault......even if you followed the instructions to a tee.........amount of water,lack of water,too thick of a bed,too thin of a bed, not 70% coverage,wrong adhesive,underfloor heating problem.......not to sat this has happend to me.....being a retailer i have heard the storys........cover all bases...

 

[JOHNNYCLARKE]

Have To Agree With Protilers And Tiler Burden Covered Every Angle.

So Nothing More To Add.

Just Make Sure If You Do Anything That Your Adhesive Manufacturer Does Not Guarantee That You Do Not Guarantee It Yourself Even If You Think You Are Saving Client Money.

You Did Not Put The Mdf Up But You Have A Duty Of Care To Advise Your Client The Correct Way Forward.

Johnny

 

[IvegotsTILE]

Let me lighten the mood.
The pictures you put up Dave of the kerdi installment,is that one of the chuckle brothers doing the work

 

[Monsoon]

Stick the Kerdi on the MR MDF with contact adhesive

 

[DHTiling]

Let me lighten the mood.
The pictures you put up Dave of the kerdi installment,is that one of the chuckle brothers doing the work

He does look like a chuckle bro doesn't he....:lol:

 

[Dan]

Some of the threads in the tiling forum that have had a lot of views are being bumped up into current discussion. Just walk on by if it's not your flavour right now. Perhaps it'll help somebody out one day, and they become members, and then they post a thread, and professional tilers respond, and then you learn something from them...? Maybe?

 

[Gabriel]

Do i need to prine water restaurant mdf before putting lining paper on it