Insulation boards - anyone used these

[marktiling]

Hi
Has any one used XPS Thermal board (from the Underfloor heating store) ?
They are considerably cheaper than kerdi boards / wedi boards etc

I know you get what you pay for but these boards have very similar properties IE. thermal performance, resistance, strength etc

Area I am thinking using them is on concrete floor with UFH matts on top.

Thanks
Mark

 

[Spud]

when i looked at using these i found that the warranty with the ufh matts was invalidated if you use budget insulation boards , my advice would be to check with the manufacturer of the matting to see if they honour their warranty using budget thermal boards good luck Gary

 

[Dan]

I've never used that actual board but I have the blue stuff which is the same as marmox but without the cement backing. That's sound stuff and my customers used to love it. Never had a problem with any manufacturers not approving it either. It was more adhesive companies that used to question it but when tested it always worked as well as marmox. Just took a bit of time for people to get used to it I think. And marmox used to bath mouth it as it crippled their prices and market share.

Just make sure your adhesive isn't solvent-based in any way (like a two-part flex can be?)

 

[Stewart]

I've used a lot of these boards, they are great for concrete floors are very competitively priced. I've also used their reinforced ones for timber floor without any problems. I haven't seen any literature regarding voiding guarantee's from other heat-mat companies as to what insulation boards you use under their mats. Here's a couple of pics from last instal.

 

[DHTiling]

Nice!! Floor..

 

[marktiling]

thanks for the assistance - great help
Mark

 

[aph257]

Nice floor Stewart

 

[Dan]

Yeah nice floor mate. Why aren't you using uheat and the forum discount if you don't mind me asking?

 

[Stewart]

Yeah nice floor mate. Why aren't you using uheat and the forum discount if you don't mind me asking?

Haven't had a chance to talk to them yet......I supply a lot of mats and the deal I get just now would be pretty hard to beat, but i will give them a call. I usually check out new suppliers and get quotes every six months, and I'm due to do this in December.

 

[mondriver]

What forum discount is that Dan?!

Thanks

 

[Uheat - Keith]

Good morning all,
We keep in stock both the Ekoboard Insulation Board and the Marmox Insulation Board.
We always call the Ekoboard 'Insulation Boards'.
We always call Marmox 'Construction Boards', and as many posts as above these are different boards to Ekoboards.
The Construction Boards are also called Substrate boards or Tile Backerboards, and have that skin of glass fibre reinforced polymer-modified cement faces, both sides. These will cost more to buy as harder to make.
The Ekoboard Insulation Boards does not have this skin and is used in the main when installing onto a concrete base.
We have a Technical Site at www.ekoboard.co.uk for U-Values etc. Ours are the Top floor grade of six grades, over 100,000 sold.
When e-mailing or telephoning us, just tell us you are a Tilers Forums member for that extra 5% discount on top of the other discounts we can give you.
Nice floor and great looking finish Stewart.

 

[ubdai]

I've used a lot of these boards, they are great for concrete floors are very competitively priced. I've also used their reinforced ones for timber floor without any problems. I haven't seen any literature regarding voiding guarantee's from other heat-mat companies as to what insulation boards you use under their mats. Here's a couple of pics from last instal.


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Can these boards be walked on without fear of damage before putting down the UFH mats.

Ubdai

 

[Mr T]

I've used a lot of these boards, they are great for concrete floors are very competitively priced. I've also used their reinforced ones for timber floor without any problems. I haven't seen any literature regarding voiding guarantee's from other heat-mat companies as to what insulation boards you use under their mats. Here's a couple of pics from last instal.


View attachment 18704 View attachment 18702 View attachment 18706 View attachment 18701 View attachment 18707 View attachment 18705 View attachment 18703

do you spread straight on top of the bare underfloor heating? is there no board to be put on top of it?

 

[White Room]

do you spread straight on top of the bare underfloor heating? is there no board to be put on top of it?

Usually a self leveling compound is used over the under floor heating....

 

[Mr T]

sorted

 

[Uheat - Keith]

You can walk over these boards with normal shoes, but if you drop a screwdriver etc onto them their will dent.
Ekoboards will dent more than Constrction boards.
Self levelling compound will fill in dent.
We would say best to complete job of underfloor heating next day. Saying that, we walked on ours for three weeks because Tilers was not ready. (2006)

Warm regards, Keith.

 

[Diamond Pool Finishers]

Insulated Panels manufacturer including cladding, composite, sandwich and lightweight panels. you can get all sorts of insulation board good for this work here ,and v-cheap guys

 

[Living Heat Ltd]

Hi,

We have been supplying and fitting these boards for over 8 years now and never had any problems with them. We have had them tested with granfix, altra and ardex adhesive manufactures and they all confirm they are suitable for use with their S1 rapid or standard set adhesives. You should however avoid the use of mosaic tiles over these boards unless a 6mm layer of suitable levelling is first installed over the boards / heating as this will spread the load of the individual mosaics which is normally done by the tile.

The standard insulations boards, (no cement covering) are typically far cheaper our retail price is under £4 including vat where as our marmox equivalent price is nearer £9 inclusive. Typical XPS boards also provide more insulation than the marmox type boards as they are100% insulation rather than marmox which has a cement coating either side which reduces the insulation ability of the board.

In short if you are installing the insulation over a stable solid floor and use a 1part flexible s1 tile adhesive to fix them in place the XPS boards (not cement coasted boards) are cheaper and will provide a better insulation level than marmox type boards. If you would like to screw the boards down or screw the boards to the wall such as when tanking a wet room then use the marmox type boards. Marmox type boards have like mentioned the cement layer that has a reinforced fiberglass mesh within it which is there so the fixing disce locks into the mesh and spread the load stopping the board ripping off the wall.

I hope this helps.
Andrew Knight.

 

[Lee@emctiles]

I was sent this by our supplier a few months ago.....

THE FACTS ON REINFORCED “PCS” CONSTRUCTION BOARDS VERSES PLAIN POLYSTYRENE BOARDS WHEN USED WITH ELECTRIC UNDERFLOOR HEATING.
For this purpose the cementitious reinforced thermal construction board shall be referred to as “PCS board” and the non-cement reinforced insulated board referred as “XPS” (extruded polystyrene)
Thermal value… Why is it important?
The thermal properties of the insulation board is the fundamental key in saving heat energy .If used with underfloor heating a significant increase in performance of heat-up times of tiles can be as great as 15 times faster than if no insulation is used.
The thermal value of both types of board PCS “cement reinforced” and XPS “non reinforced” get their insulation properties from the extruded foam.
The thermal value of the extruded foam can vary depending on the manufacturer and the type of blowing agents used. Some Manufacturers quote results based on DIN testing standards whilst others quote current BS EN standards. The different testing standards will give different results which are confusing when comparing results.
PCS boards have the thermal properties tested to BS EN 13164 2007 giving current and accurate data
XPS boards (dependant on manufacturer) prefer quoting DIN testing standards which often show more favourable results that may not be accurate if tested to BS EN standards

Point loading… Why is it important?
When laying insulation sheets on to any floor substrate, it goes without saying that the sheets will be walked upon by the fitter/installer during installation. It is the action of the installer kneeling and standing onto the sheet that produces a point load. This can crush or even snap the insulation if it is not reinforced. In situations where an electric under floor heating cable is installed point loading becomes a serious problem. If there is no reinforcement below the electrical heating cable, any force or weight applied can press the cable down and sink it into the insulation. If the insulation is crushed /compressed the thermal value of the insulation is reduced, also if the cable is forced into the insulation this will reduce the performance of the heating element due to the reduction of exposed surface area of the heating cable.
PCS boards have point loading capabilities and protect the insulation from damage during installation
XPS boards only have no resistance to point load and so becomes compressed and damaged during installation

Rigid construction… Why is it important?
For ease of application it is much easier to lay a lightweight rigid sheet over an uneven substrate as it will span slight unevenness easily. Problems arise when a using XPS boards less than 20mm thick as they are flexible and will follow any undulation in the floor substrate. As with all boards that are laid onto floors, an amount of force needs to be applied to the sheet to firmly fix it down into the adhesive. With cement reinforced boards this works fine as the force is distributed evenly, but when force is applied to a XPS board, the area where the force is applied is the only area that gets forced into the adhesive resulting in an undulating surface.
PCS boards are lightweight yet very rigid providing easy installation
XPS boards are extremely flexible making installation difficult

Impact resistance …Why is it important?
With every installation, the sheets will have to be Moved/Carried and possibly cut to fit. This movement of the boards especially in confined spaces where there are fixed objects i.e. Bathtubs/Kitchen units, walls etc can cause the boards to become damaged through impact against hard surfaces..PCS board can withstand these knocks during installation compared to a plain XPS foam sheet that are prone to substantial damage and snap easily.
PCS boards resist impact and will not be affected as a result of accidental knocks during installation.
XPS boards have no resistance to impact and break very easily as a result of accidental knocks during installation.