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Discuss Tiles de-bonding from new house in the Tiling Forum area at TilersForums.co.uk.

  1. Tileadvice

    Tileadvice Active Member

    Location:
    Ireland
    Hi there.

    Has any seen an issue with tiles that de_bonded or became loose?
    We moved into a new build. Floor base was not powerfloated (which is better for tiling). Tiler used Larsen Primer, & Larsen flexible rapid adhesive to tile ground floor with 75x75 porcelain tiles. 6weeks later we could hear a hollow sound..from every tile. We called the builder and tiler, they removed a tile to see underneath. The adhesive was stuck to the tile, and primer to the adhesive so none to the ground...is this normal? Also there was a strong Solvent smell when we lifted the tile! Has anyone seen this? The tiler seem suprised. Would the Primer used have contributed to the issue...can it be contaminated or "go-off"??

    We are now in a situation where the builder and tiler think they are not at fault, either do Larsens. But one thing for certain it is not me!

    Can anyone help??
     
  2. jcrtiling

    jcrtiling Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler TTA Member Top Contributor

    Location:
    Salisbury
    Have you had a rep out from Larsen to look at the job . Do you know what primer was used . Are you saying the primer has come up with the tile if so is there dust or cement stuck to the primer .
     
  3. 3_fall

    3_fall Administrator. Staff Member Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    SW London
    Does it have ufh, and do you know exactly what type of screed you have?
    It’s unlikely to be the adhesive used.
     
  4. Tileadvice

    Tileadvice Active Member

    Location:
    Ireland
    Yes we had the Larsen Rep out when we took up the tile. They were also concerned about the Solvent smell and said that their primer&adhesive should not smell Solvent. Larsen also to a sample but their testing is really a Look & Feel test, not worth much to be honest. It was Acrylic Primer used. When they took up the tile they could see the primer stuck to the adhesive, it was a clean de-bond with no dust or cement.

    I am wondering if the primer was Off, would it be the Solvent smell?
     
  5. Tileadvice

    Tileadvice Active Member

    Location:
    Ireland
    Yes we have UFH with 10mm screed
     
  6. 3_fall

    3_fall Administrator. Staff Member Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    SW London

    10mm screed? Unlikely.

    Is your ufh wet or electric?
    Anhydride screeds are 40-45mm min with ufh.
    And sand and cement screeds with ufh should be 60ish
    Are sure, firstly on depth, and secondly is it the actual screed you’re talking about or is it a latex covering over the screed.
     
  7. Chalker

    Chalker Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner

    Location:
    Tadcaster
    10mm could be nu-heat lopro.
    If it is, it’s covered in fibre reinforced self levelling.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  8. 3_fall

    3_fall Administrator. Staff Member Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    SW London
    Cheers Paul. :)
    Yet another ufh system added to the list. :oops:
    Looks ok tho, although I’m a bit dubious about their statement about finished floor being perfectly flat. :D
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Tileadvice

    Tileadvice Active Member

    Location:
    Ireland
    I see on the report it is a C28/35 screed with Enduro HPP45 macro reinforement fibres. The tile removed was over the expansion joint which was 10mm depth. Would that be screed depth?
     
  10. Tileadvice

    Tileadvice Active Member

    Location:
    Ireland
    Also wet UFH
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  11. Andy Allen

    Andy Allen Metro specialist & forum entertainer! Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    Gloucester
    Was the UFH commissioned before tiling.?

    How long after tiling was the UFH left off before being turned on for the first time.?

    And how was the UFH turned on the first time after tiling?
     
  12. Tileadvice

    Tileadvice Active Member

    Location:
    Ireland
    Yes, the UHF was commissioned by the building contractor. We were instructed to turn it on for 2week, then off two weeks. It was back on a week after.

    Interestingly, the bathrooms are fine. A different tiler used leveling compound for to slope wet room, however used different Larsen batches...

    I am wondering what could caused the Solvent smell under the tile when it was lifted? It smelled like Window cleaner
     
  13. Andy Allen

    Andy Allen Metro specialist & forum entertainer! Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    Gloucester
    The tiling should of been left for 3 to 4 weeks before turning the UFH on , then it should of been turned on just a few degrees each day to build up the temperature very slowly.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2018
  14. 3_fall

    3_fall Administrator. Staff Member Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    SW London
    Unfortunately it’s difficult to determine very much at all at the moment because the information you are providing is incomplete.
    The under floor heating commissioning is very important and is done in a very specific way.
    Incorrect procedures can cause catastrophic failure.

    To say it was turned on for two weeks and then turned off two weeks, and back on a week later, just isn’t enough information I’m afraid.
    Temperature increase by specific increments is very important as is the time scale.
    It sounds by the way you’re describing it that you just whacked the heating on for two weeks, then shut it off for two weeks, then whacked it on one week after Tiling, if it happened this way it will have contributed to the failure.
    We can’t advise if we don’t have full disclosure and full answers to the questions asked.
    Tiling is very much an exact science these days, with each product used relying on the next one to achieve a successful install.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. 3_fall

    3_fall Administrator. Staff Member Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    SW London
    What was Larsens final conclusion, did you receive a written report?

    You say the bathrooms are fine, do they have the same wet ufh, or are they electric?

    Your ufh system, whose manufacturers it?
    Who installed it?
     
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