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Hi there.

Has any seen an issue with tiles that de_bonded or became loose?
We moved into a new build. Floor base was not powerfloated (which is better for tile). Tiler used Larsen Primer, & Larsen flexible rapid https://www.tilersforums.com/forums/tile-adhesive/ to tile ground floor with 75x75 porcelain tiles. 6weeks later we could hear a hollow sound..from every tile. We called the builder and tiler, they removed a tile to see underneath. The https://www.tilersforums.com/forums/tile-adhesive/ was stuck to the tile, and primer to the https://www.tilersforums.com/forums/tile-adhesive/ so none to the ground...is this normal? Also there was a strong Solvent smell when we lifted the tile! Has anyone seen this? The tiler seem suprised. Would the Primer used have contributed to the issue...can it be contaminated or "go-off"??

We are now in a situation where the builder and tiler think they are not at fault, either do Larsens. But one thing for certain it is not me!

Can anyone help??
 
D

Dumbo

Have you had a rep out from Larsen to look at the job . Do you know what primer was used . Are you saying the primer has come up with the tile if so is there dust or cement stuck to the primer .
 
O

Old Mod

Does it have ufh, and do you know exactly what type of screed you have?
It’s unlikely to be the https://www.tilersforums.com/forums/tile-adhesive/ used.
 
OP
T
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Have you had a rep out from Larsen to look at the job . Do you know what primer was used . Are you saying the primer has come up with the tile if so is there dust or cement stuck to the primer .

Yes we had the Larsen Rep out when we took up the tile. They were also concerned about the Solvent smell and said that their primer&https://www.tilersforums.com/forums/tile-adhesive/ should not smell Solvent. Larsen also to a sample but their testing is really a Look & Feel test, not worth much to be honest. It was Acrylic Primer used. When they took up the tile they could see the primer stuck to the https://www.tilersforums.com/forums/tile-adhesive/, it was a clean de-bond with no dust or cement.

I am wondering if the primer was Off, would it be the Solvent smell?
 
O

Old Mod

Yes we have UFH with 10mm screed


10mm screed? Unlikely.

Is your ufh wet or electric?
Anhydride screeds are 40-45mm min with ufh.
And sand and cement screeds with ufh should be 60ish
Are sure, firstly on depth, and secondly is it the actual screed you’re talking about or is it a latex covering over the screed.
 

Chalker

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10mm screed? Unlikely.

Is your ufh wet or electric?
Anhydride screeds are 40-45mm min with ufh.
And sand and cement screeds with ufh should be 60ish
Are sure, firstly on depth, and secondly is it the actual screed you’re talking about or is it a latex covering over the screed.
10mm could be nu-heat lopro.
If it is, it’s covered in fibre reinforced self levelling.
 
O

Old Mod

10mm could be nu-heat lopro.
If it is, it’s covered in fibre reinforced self levelling.
Cheers Paul. :)
Yet another ufh system added to the list. :oops:
Looks ok tho, although I’m a bit dubious about their statement about finished floor being perfectly flat. :D
 
OP
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I see on the report it is a C28/35 screed with Enduro HPP45 macro reinforement fibres. The tile removed was over the expansion joint which was 10mm depth. Would that be screed depth?
 

Andy Allen

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Was the UFH commissioned before tile.?

How long after tile was the UFH left off before being turned on for the first time.?

And how was the UFH turned on the first time after tile?
 
OP
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Yes, the UHF was commissioned by the building contractor. We were instructed to turn it on for 2week, then off two weeks. It was back on a week after.

Interestingly, the bathrooms are fine. A different tiler used leveling compound for to slope wet room, however used different Larsen batches...

I am wondering what could caused the Solvent smell under the tile when it was lifted? It smelled like Window cleaner
 

Andy Allen

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The tile should of been left for 3 to 4 weeks before turning the UFH on , then it should of been turned on just a few degrees each day to build up the temperature very slowly.
 
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O

Old Mod

Unfortunately it’s difficult to determine very much at all at the moment because the information you are providing is incomplete.
The under floor heating commissioning is very important and is done in a very specific way.
Incorrect procedures can cause catastrophic failure.

To say it was turned on for two weeks and then turned off two weeks, and back on a week later, just isn’t enough information I’m afraid.
Temperature increase by specific increments is very important as is the time scale.
It sounds by the way you’re describing it that you just whacked the heating on for two weeks, then shut it off for two weeks, then whacked it on one week after tile, if it happened this way it will have contributed to the failure.
We can’t advise if we don’t have full disclosure and full answers to the questions asked.
tile is very much an exact science these days, with each product used relying on the next one to achieve a successful install.
 
O

Old Mod

What was Larsens final conclusion, did you receive a written report?

You say the bathrooms are fine, do they have the same wet ufh, or are they electric?

Your ufh system, whose manufacturers it?
Who installed it?
 

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