Thank you all for your input so far.
It has been a great help in at least being able to know what to look for as we start to try to put things right.
I will of course let you know the outcome, should we ever actually get to the bottom of it of course.
Thanks again
Hello,
I finally have an update on this issue, and wanted to update you (it sucks when someone asks for help and you never hear the outcome).
So the bathroom fitter and tiler visited a wekk or two after the last post on this forum, and they too had done a little research on the problem, of course.
They also came to a pretty strong conclusion that it was the tiles that were at fault.
We pointed out that they only seemed to be broken in a few specific areas, which are areas that had formerly been painted, above the midline, and that if it was solely the tiles, would this not have happened much more randomly in all areas?
We ultimately agreed that it is more likely a combination of issues....for example, had there not been paint, the tiles would have maybe not cracked, but the painted surface in addition to likely substandard tiles = cracked tiles.
We came to an agreement that we would hold off doing anything for a few months to see if any further tiles cracked before deciding on a course of action.
As of 2 weeks ago, no further tiles had cracked, and since we didn't actually know who/what was the cause, rather than rip the whole bathroom out to retile (which was in neither of our best interests at this point), we all agreed that they would come round and remove the broken ones and replace them, hopefully maybe getting more of an idea of the cause at the same time as the tiles came off.
I have been really appreciative at the whole way they have dealt with this so far to be honest. They could have easily washed their hands of it and blamed it solely on the tiles, given the reputation of the manufacturer and the fact the company has gone into administration. Which would have left us no choice but to pay huge amounts for an inspection from TTA to get to the bottom of it.
Given that they are sure genuinely sure it is an issue with the tiles (which is a reasonable assumption given that they have used the same tiling practices as all their previous jobs and have never seen this type of cracking before), they agreed to perform the work to replace them anyway.
So we finally reached the day of the work to replace the tiles.
Despite the cracks, the guys did have a hard time getting them off the walls. They definitely did not just fall or peel off or anything like that.
We all, of course, have been keen to see what was happening behind the tiles in the hope that we would get to the bottom of it.
Once they emerged having removed the offending tiles, I asked if they were any the wiser, and it seems they found nothing that made them suspect it was anything more than the tiles as they originally suspected.
I of course was keen to have a look too, and armed with all the advice and suggestions you have all provided in this thread, here is what I noticed:
1. The tiles had indeed been spot fixed. Not spots around the corners, but one or two large blobs in the center of the tiles. There was no adhesive around the edges.
2. The paint from the former bathroom was still on the walls. Although it had been "keyed", it had not been removed, and only small amounts had been removed during the removal of the tiles. Most of it was still there...They have now scraped the remainder off and used "stabiliser" on the walls to make sure that is ruled out.
3. the removed tiled reached down to a median strip of thicker tiles, and although this strip has been totally covered with adhesive, I was able to get a cutter blade all the way down between the adhesive and the wall.
I pointed these things out to the guys, asking if they could possibly be the cause, just to help satisfy our joint curiosities, and hopefully to make sure the same doesn't repeat.
The responses are as follows:
1. Spot Fixing: They said that spot fixing may indeed cause issues on a floor, but that tilers always fix this way on walls, otherwise they can't get a completely flat surface. They said that if they went for 100% coverage, then the adhesive follows any curve in the wall rather than the flat back of the tile, and makes it hard to avoid lippage. They said that although it would be great to get 100% coverage, it just isn't practical in the real world, and that British Standards only requires 80% coverage, which they have achieved.
They said they have used the same methods in hundreds of jobs, and have never had an issue like this before, and pointed out that if they had, and that had been the cause, they would have done it different from then on, of course.
They also pointed out that all the tiles in other areas of the bathroom are not cracked despite the same fixing method being used.
2. Paint: Again they pointed out that there are other areas where there is paint, but no cracked tiles. Also pointed out that if it was the paint, then the tiles would have just fallen off the wall when they came to remove them rather than having to be smashed off. They said they are pretty convinced it is not the paint, though, as mentioned above, they have removed it and used some kind of stabilising chemical on the wall just to be sure.
I was careful not to contradict any of their points, for obvious reasons. I just wanted to point out my observations and hear their oppinions.
They said that they could understand a spot fix possibly being broken by being bashed, but had never had a tile just crack itself. And they also said that even if the paint had caused some areas not to have 100% proper adhesion, they would have still not have expected that to cause cracks in the tiles.
The most confusing of all, was that when the tiles came off around the window, which were also cracked, they DID have 100% coverage. And although there was still paint beneath the adhesive, they did have a job getting the adhesive off.
The points they raised against spot fixing and paint, particularly the fact it had only happened in a specific area, was quite compelling too, and so we are all still unable to make a definitive decision as to the exact cause.
We are still of the opinion that it is a combination of the paint/fixing/tile. If the tiles were totally sound, the other factors wouldn't have been an issue and vice versa.
Ultimately, I'm just stoked that the guys have redone the afected areas, despite not really knowing the cause befoer doing so, and still being none the wiser after.
All we can do, given than no further tiles have cracked since February, is hope this is the end of it. But the adhesive isn't dry yet.....so keep your fingers crossed for us
)
Anyway....I just wanted to let you know the outcome, and to take a moment to thank you all again for all your insight and advice on this issue. It has really helped us all to try to understand what happened and to reach an agreement and a solution that we were all happy with.
