Water UFH Tile moving and grout breaking - Tile Advice

[procastinator]

Was everything else supplied to the tiler? I.e. adhesive, tiles, grout, silicone etc … was the tiler asked to supply anything himself?

Hi Alex, everything was supplied to the tiler. We did ask him if he needed anything else given the information about the floor. He didn't think a primer was required.

 

[Alex121212]

Hi Alex, everything was supplied to the tiler. We did ask him if he needed anything else given the information about the floor. He didn't think a primer was required.

Sorry, sounds like you might be right … no idea why you wouldn’t want to put a primer down on a new surface like that … bound to be some sort of residue / powder somewhere as it’s dried & for the time it takes to apply a primer, even with a brush, it’s not worth the potential impact of not doing … but if you didn’t provide it, that’s what he might say, but then you did check with him specifically & he said no …

You might want to get someone in to look at it & check, rather than just going off the advice here - there might be an underlying cause that’s nothing to do with the tiling (although that doesn’t sound likely I’m afraid).

 

[Anthony]

Sorry, sounds like you might be right … no idea why you wouldn’t want to put a primer down on a new surface like that … bound to be some sort of residue / powder somewhere as it’s dried & for the time it takes to apply a primer, even with a brush, it’s not worth the potential impact of not doing … but if you didn’t provide it, that’s what he might say, but then you did check with him specifically & he said no …

You might want to get someone in to look at it & check, rather than just going off the advice here - there might be an underlying cause that’s nothing to do with the tiling (although that doesn’t sound likely I’m afraid).

Took a few up now. First one was 112 m2 took 2 of us 75 minutes to take it up, with a hand full of adhesive left on the floor!!

 

[procastinator]

Sorry, sounds like you might be right … no idea why you wouldn’t want to put a primer down on a new surface like that … bound to be some sort of residue / powder somewhere as it’s dried & for the time it takes to apply a primer, even with a brush, it’s not worth the potential impact of not doing … but if you didn’t provide it, that’s what he might say, but then you did check with him specifically & he said no …

You might want to get someone in to look at it & check, rather than just going off the advice here - there might be an underlying cause that’s nothing to do with the tiling (although that doesn’t sound likely I’m afraid).

Someone has looked at it and said it is due to the primer not being put down. The tiler isn't taking any responsibility to the point of ignoring my calls. I am lost at this moment.
What can be done? The other guy mentioned epoxy grout as he thought the epoxy might hold the tiles stronger. The gap between the tiles is 2m which won't be enough to drill and pump fix a floor solution. What do you recon?

 

[procastinator]

Took a few up now. First one was 112 m2 took 2 of us 75 minutes to take it up, with a hand full of adhesive left on the floor!!

Hey Anthony, is it worth re-grouting or spreading epoxy over the tiles to hold them down before we start taking all of 100 sq m of tiles?

 

[Dave]

Primer HAS to be used and an Anhydrite screed … end of and also more than one coat.. other questions : is the screed heated ? : How long had the screed been down ?.

 

[Anthony]

Someone has looked at it and said it is due to the primer not being put down. The tiler isn't taking any responsibility to the point of ignoring my calls. I am lost at this moment.
What can be done? The other guy mentioned epoxy grout as he thought the epoxy might hold the tiles stronger. The gap between the tiles is 2m which won't be enough to drill and pump fix a floor solution. What do you recon?

Hey Anthony, is it worth re-grouting or spreading epoxy over the tiles to hold them down before we start taking all of 100 sq m of tiles?

Hi.it’s a case of starting again. The tiles are effectively just sitting on top of the subfloor, the only thing holding them down is the weight of tile and the adhesive stuck to the back of them. There’s absolutely no point throwing more money at it with epoxy.
Sorry to hear of your agony.

 

[procastinator]

Primer HAS to be used and an Anhydrite screed … end of and also more than one coat.. other questions : is the screed heated ? : How long had the screed been down ?.

Hi Dave, the screed was put down in end of May 2022. The screed is heated.
The primer looks like has been missed. What are my options now?

 

[procastinator]

Hi.it’s a case of starting again. The tiles are effectively just sitting on top of the subfloor, the only thing holding them down is the weight of tile and the adhesive stuck to the back of them. There’s absolutely no point throwing more money at it with epoxy.
Sorry to hear of your agony.

Thanks for the advice Anthony. Appreciate it. I will see if I can get hold of the tiler and get him to correct this. I don't have much faith in if I would be able to. Can't even take him to some sort of court.

 

[Dave]

Hi Dave, the screed was put down in end of May 2022. The screed is heated.
The primer looks like has been missed. What are my options now?

If it’s not primed, then it’s failed due to ettringite formation due to reaction with the cementitious based adhesive and the gypsum content of the screed. No other fix than a full rip out and prepping correctly will work. A full lack of knowledge by your tile installer.

 

[Ajax123]

It is not possible on most ufh systems to increase the temperature by 1C. I’m interested to know how you achieved this?

 

[procastinator]

It is not possible on most ufh systems to increase the temperature by 1C. I’m interested to know how you achieved this?

I have hive thermostat. Kept the thermostat on the tile, it gave me a temperature and then I set the target to 1 degree higher than what was displayed. Once it be hit the target it would automatically cut off heating. This was the method followed.

 

[procastinator]

If it’s not primed, then it’s failed due to ettringite formation due to reaction with the cementitious based adhesive and the gypsum content of the screed. No other fix than a full rip out and prepping correctly will work. A full lack of knowledge by your tile installer.

hi @Dave so it seems like I need to get the work surveyed by a pro tiler, get a report of all what's wrong, get a quote of redoing the work and then confront the tiler with the facts. They are not picking my phone. So logically am thinking how can I get them to listen. Possibly send them a legal letter illustrating the case? What do you reckon?

 

[Ajax123]

Your use of the room stat to control the temperature is an in appropriate way to do it. The flow temperature of the water within the screed is the important bit. That can only be controlled at the mixing valve or the boiler. That is why you cannot really control it as finely as 1C per day. Using the stat controls the room temp not the glow temp. My gut feeling is that the incoming temperature has been too high and has shocked the floor and that is the reason for the tiles popping.

 

[Anthony]

Your use of the room stat to control the temperature is an in appropriate way to do it. The flow temperature of the water within the screed is the important bit. That can only be controlled at the mixing valve or the boiler. That is why you cannot really control it as finely as 1C per day. Using the stat controls the room temp not the glow temp. My gut feeling is that the incoming temperature has been too high and has shocked the floor and that is the reason for the tiles popping.

Irrelevant! She’s established it’s not been primed. You don’t even need to have ufh for this to happen. It’s a chemical reaction between screed and cement!