Remedy loose tiles

[fad]

I've got to look at a job where tiles in 2 bathrooms have worked loose. The client said that a bad job had been done previously. There is UFH. That's all I know so far. Can anyone give me some ponters as to what to look out for ?
I am wondering whether the job might have to be redone from scratch ? Sounds like the client is simply looking for a retile. Would a de-coupling mat be an option ?

 

[CON5933]

first thing to check before you touch any tiles..see if the UFH works..you don't want to get the blame for it if it was damaged by the 'loose' tiles.
then, was there any SLC used over the UFH?
were the tile put directly onto the UFH?
chances are mate the UFH won't survive the tiles coming up..altho i stand to be corrected

 

[peckers]

I agree with what con has said, but also be prepaired to do more then just a few loose tiles, as these types of jobs turn into more then meets the eye, especially as you said it has been a bad job done!
If you are only pricing to replace a few tiles explain to the customer that it could turn into alot bigger job and for him to expect the worse maybe!
But if the ufh is the cable type it very rarely survives from pulling up tiles, just be warned!!! and explain this to the customer in advance!!!!

 

[Ajax123]

What is the substrate?

 

[fad]

I just had a look at the job - the substrate is a sand & cement screed or self-levelling. There is UFH in the two bathrooms, which have a small control panel on the wall outside so I assume that UFH was used with self-levelling over the top. However the method of applying adhesive was dot & dab, I think it's called, so I assume that this is the cause of the tiles to working loose ?
These are 600x300 stone tiles so would it be practical to clean the adhesive from the back and relay ?
Also, The depth of the tile and adhesive add up to about 30mm and I 've got to maintain the same depth - does that mean using more self-levelling and then tiling on top? If so how easy is it to be that precise with the self-levelling ? Given that the tile is say 10mm, the adhesive say 6mm, that would leave 14mm to make up.

 

[fad]

By the way Con the UFH doesn't work in at least one of the bathrooms but the client said he's not bothered about it because it's not really needed. So that was good to sort out.

 

[White Room]

The screed would be a gritty sand, slc would be smooth and fine.
What adhesive do you know was used to dot and dab

 

[fad]

It is quite smooth so i assume it is SLC. Not sure about the adhesive- how can you tell ? Client does has records of tiles bought -not sure about adhesive. I looked on the back of the tile and it looks fairly course and cement based.

 

[jay]

hi have you worked out why tiles have de bonded and what percentage do you need to replace it may not be a simple fix :8:

 

[fad]

I asssumed that it debonded because of the dot & dab method of fixing when it should really be a solid bed. The client has agreed that the whole floor needs to be re-tiled. because so many tiles are working loose. This is occuring in 2 bathrooms and also the kitchen where there is a hollow sound throughout.

 

[jay]

when you lift tiles is adh on back of tile or on sub:8:
also is grout still in place no cracks

 

[fad]

Most of the adhesive is in blobs on the floor( about 15mm high ) There is some on the back of the tiles, about 3mm say in the same position as the blobs on the floor.
There is a lot of cracking in the grout - not all over but there is where the tiles have come loose.

 

[Rob Z]

I just had a look at the job - the substrate is a sand & cement screed or self-levelling. There is UFH in the two bathrooms, which have a small control panel on the wall outside so I assume that UFH was used with self-levelling over the top. However the method of applying adhesive was dot & dab, I think it's called, so I assume that this is the cause of the tiles to working loose ?
These are 600x300 stone tiles so would it be practical to clean the adhesive from the back and relay ?
Also, The depth of the tile and adhesive add up to about 30mm and I 've got to maintain the same depth - does that mean using more self-levelling and then tiling on top? If so how easy is it to be that precise with the self-levelling ? Given that the tile is say 10mm, the adhesive say 6mm, that would leave 14mm to make up.

Hi Fad, it sounds like you have quite a job there, and good chance to come out smelling like a rose in the eyes of the client. Once you have sorted out this mess that the previous tiler made of this job you will be looking like a pro to them.

One idea I had to deal with the 14 mm you need is to use SLC and to calculate the volume needed to fill the area you have X 14 mm in depth. THe bags of SLC should give you the volume per bag and then it's simple math to figure out the rest. Figure out how many bags per room, mix and pour only that amount.

On one job we had last year, we had todo the same thing. The subfloor was so irregular that I couldn't do an estimate of number of bags so what I did was use my laser and epoxy small bits of tile (approx 2" X 2") down to the concrete, maintaining the height of the top of each in relation to the laser line. I used epoxy only because it set up fast, but if you don't have epoxy use a good setting material and give it a day to cure.

Then, we applied the primer in the normal fashion, including on the sides of the little monuments that we had made with the tile and epoxy. We poured SLC on the whole thing and just poured and pushed it so it just barely covered the top of the monuments. That way, we got the floor very, very close to where it needed to be.

 

[jay]

okay sounds like its just the method of fixing at fault if it stuck to both makes you wonder why its so thick /// if you try and patch it wont be long before the rest will let go (as they will be the weakest ) and with that thickness of adh it could be a nightmare best advice is to remove purchase new tiles try and find fault in ufh possibly level floor to improve height issues, lay grout new floor as client will end up paying more to patch than to fix propper just let him know his opptions (be carfule patching as it can come back and bite you ) hope this helps:8:

 

[Rob Z]

Hi Jay 800 AM here, must be late at night over there already. :8:

 

[jay]

hi rob 11.10 pm still very hummid few more drinks then bed :8:

 

[fad]

Jay, I was puzzled as to why it was so thick myself. I thoght maybe it was to save on self -levelling.
Regarding the re-laying. These appear to be stone tiles - can they be cleaned up and re- used ? Or is that not a practical option ? I think the client will go with advice given. Client has already agreed to complete re-tiling.

 

[jay]

yes you can clean and re lay you might find it easier to start fresh :8:

 

[fad]

I'm gradually getting to grips with this one- mentally at least. Has anyone got advice on the SLC ? To get to approx 14mm with SLC would I have to do it in2 goes ? I dont think I can do that with mapei fibreplan and I dont know what self levelling has already been used over the UFH. So what would be a safe bet in these curcumstances do you think ?
This one has got me puzzled !