New here. Some advice - TilersForums.com

[Andy Allen]

Pva would be fine with ready mixed adhesive. Where it fails is when gypsum meets pva meets water meets cement and even then it's not a certainty. But when it does go with etringite failure, it really goes!

How do plasterers get away with it, there plasters wet...?

 

[WetSaw]

It's the gypsum v cement chemistry I think. I'm sure one of the nerds will be along soon to elaborate.

 

[Andy Allen]

MARC....

 

[One Day]

How do plasterers get away with it, there plasters wet...?

Coz no cement is involved.
Decent plasteres (I know 2) also steer away from PVA nowadays.
Both use BAL SBR instead. They tell me that PVA on sand and cement render with gypsum skim ontop can blow due to etringite failure...
Remember sWe? He posted a brilliant article on here about 7yrs ago all about the science behind it.

 

[One Day]

PVA and Cementious Materials
I hadn't even heard of using PVA for anything tiling related before I came on here. Thus, I read up
on it, and here follows my findings:
PVA stands for polyvinyl acetate, and it is a rubbery synthetic polymer. It is commonly emulsified
in water and used as glue. Many know it simply as "wood glue", or "carpenter's glue".
Cementious materials, such as many tile adhesives and grouts, or other materials which contain
cement, such as concrete, are alkaline. Simplified, that means they have a high pH.
Alkali slowly attacks polyvinyl acetate, forming acetic acid, which has a low pH. Cement doesn't
dry per se; it cures through hydration, which means it binds the water you mix it with chemically.
This causes the pH of the substance to rise dramatically. Introducing an acid negates that process to
some extent, preventing the cement or conrete from binding all the water it needs to harden
properly.
It is hydrtion which gives cement and concrete products strength, and holds them together. Without
this process, it would merely be the powder you started with.
The acetic acid which is formed when cement and PVA comes into contact, either through mixing
them, or "priming" with PVA, will continually free the water bound in the cement, and that will
weaken the bond and/or integrity of the material. The effect is accelerated if the material is
subjected to moisture, which is more or less always the case.
PVA isn't water resistant. It becomes slightly live when exposed to moisture, and this in
combination with the exposure to alkali, accelerates the forming of acetic acid. PVA which is
marketed as "water resistant" or "exterior grade", has additives which makes them water resistant,
but they're not alkali-resistant.

 

[One Day]

From sWe's tiling guide...

Found here: A compilation of guides to tiling (pdf) - https://www.tilersforums.com/threads/a-compilation-of-guides-to-tiling-pdf.15379/#post-133417

 

[One Day]

Anyone know what happened to sWe???

 

[WetSaw]

I think he went on to compère University Challenge...

 

[Andy Allen]

Number 2 nerd.....