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Discuss Hollow Sounds and Space under edge of tiles? in the Tiling Forum area at TilersForums.co.uk.

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  1. Chris101

    Chris101 Active Member

    Location:
    London
    We are having our kitchen redone due to problems with our suspended flooring.
    As a result we have put a concrete floor down.
    We have just had our tiler start on the job - laying 40m2 of porcelain tiles (60*60)

    We have just inspected some of the tiles that were laid and have noticed that a couple of them sound hollow in places and when we look around the edges of the tiles, you can see gaps between the base of the tile and concrete flooring.

    Please see pictures attached.

    *We also have underfloor heating which had been left on by the builders before the tiler started the job, not sure if any relevance to the above?

    Is this normal or do we have a problem?!

    20170902_211317.jpg 20170902_211338.jpg 20170902_211346.jpg
     
  2. Localtiler

    Localtiler Professional Tiler Top Contributor

    Location:
    Yorkshire
    The underfloor heating should be switched off at least 48 hours before tiling, is it on whilst he is tiling ? It's tricky to tell exactly how he has fixed the tiles
     
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  3. Chris101

    Chris101 Active Member

    Location:
    London
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2017
  4. pdc

    pdc Professional Tiler Top Contributor

    As above. Also the floor doesn't seem very flat looking at the edge of the tiles. There does look like a lot of voids on the edge of the tiles.
     
  5. Localtiler

    Localtiler Professional Tiler Top Contributor

    Location:
    Yorkshire
    The floor does look uneven which isn't great. It's really not right that he's tiling whilst the floor is heated! Did he put any adhesive on the back of the tile?
     
  6. Localtiler

    Localtiler Professional Tiler Top Contributor

    Location:
    Yorkshire
    We all love a video on here!
     
  7. Chris101

    Chris101 Active Member

    Location:
    London
  8. Localtiler

    Localtiler Professional Tiler Top Contributor

    Location:
    Yorkshire
    What's the reason for you secretly filming your tiler? Did you suspect something? He isn't back buttering, and he isn't bedding the tiles in in the slightest, very poor methods chris.
     
  9. Chris101

    Chris101 Active Member

    Location:
    London
    Secretly filming?
    The whole project has been filmed and each tradesman was made aware so they didn't just turn up with a camera in their face.
    Main reason was for exactly this reason - so we do not get done over again and can see exactly what is going on.
     
    • Dislike Dislike x 1
  10. Bond

    Bond Top Contributor

    Location:
    Highland
    A cursory glance with a rubber mallet on the face of the tile ,skipping the back buttering process,together with the voids. ( not good practice im afraid).
     
  11. antonio

    antonio Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    italy
    if I understood correctly,
    Was the heating turned off an hour earlier?
    (that's no good).
    buttering, it is not compulsory up to 60cm,
    but it is better to do so.
    it does not beat the tiles with a rubber hammer,
    because the hammer is black ..... :( primitive)
    it needs a white hammer.
    when using the clamp to pull clips
    I'm crying. :(
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Andy Allen

    Andy Allen Metro specialist & forum entertainer! Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    Gloucester
    Filming every tradesmen !!
    What's the world coming to.
    Don't know about anyone else but that leaves a funny taste in my mouth.. :(
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
    • Like Like x 1
  13. pdc

    pdc Professional Tiler Top Contributor

    I'd have politely declined the job. I can understand the owner if they've had trouble in the past but for me if there's no trust to begin with it's not a good start. I also wonder whether the tradesmen agreed to the video being posted on the internet and how that would look in court if problems arose.
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Andy Allen

    Andy Allen Metro specialist & forum entertainer! Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    Gloucester
    You would of had a whole video of me farting on a Monday morning after Sunday lunch !!!
     
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  15. pdc

    pdc Professional Tiler Top Contributor

    I've filmed myself unblocking clients drains. Strangely they never want to see it!!
     
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  16. Andy Allen

    Andy Allen Metro specialist & forum entertainer! Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    Gloucester
    Seriously..... There's no way I would agreed to that either...
    Do your homework.... Choose the right tradesmen and if your that concerned take a day off and keep an eye on them.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Andy Allen

    Andy Allen Metro specialist & forum entertainer! Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    Gloucester
    Would seriously question the legality of it...
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. Chris101

    Chris101 Active Member

    Location:
    London
    The idea of the filming and suggestion actually came from the construction company themselves.
    Their website has a video clip of a 2 story extension going up and when discussing the project with them and our past, they said 'you are more than welcome to record the job as well'....
     
  19. Localtiler

    Localtiler Professional Tiler Top Contributor

    Location:
    Yorkshire
    filming aside. He's not doing a good job. Cosmetically perhaps yes it might end up looking good, but the essentials aren't good. I'm certain you could lift a tile very easily
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. Chris101

    Chris101 Active Member

    Location:
    London
    Thank you for all your responses.
    Going forward, what would you advise we do?

    Should we have a self levelling compound and decoupling membrane installed?
    The contract does state a decoupling membrane should have been put down however this clearly is not the case...

    I am also not sure if the decoupling membrane does anything to level the floor?

    The concrete, wet underfloor pipes and screed on top was all laid 1 month ago.
     
  21. Albert

    Albert Professional Tiler Top Contributor

    Location:
    Gateshead NE8, UK
    How thick was the concrete and has the heating been commissioned
     
  22. Chris101

    Chris101 Active Member

    Location:
    London
    Not sure as the contracted initially stated a new block and beam suspended floor but it was only when the builders were on site they decided on the concrete option.

    The heating has been commissioned although they had to make a few visits to rectify issues with the heating coming on and then not switching off via thermostat.
     
  23. Localtiler

    Localtiler Professional Tiler Top Contributor

    Location:
    Yorkshire
    Drying times before tiling can commence is 1 day per 1mm thickness upto 40mm then its 2 days per mm as a guide. How soon after it all going down did they put the heating on ?
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2017
  24. Andy Allen

    Andy Allen Metro specialist & forum entertainer! Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    Gloucester
    Did anyone test the screed to see if it was dry.? ..... One month is not long enough unless they force dried it with the ufh.
    Are there any cracks in the screed?
    If so then a decoupler should of been used.
    If the floor isn't level then it should of been leveled either by the builder (joke)
    Or by the tiler... Before tiling.
    Voids in tiles should be avoided at all costs.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  25. Albert

    Albert Professional Tiler Top Contributor

    Location:
    Gateshead NE8, UK
    Decoupling membrane will not level the floor, it should have been done with slc
     
  26. Chris101

    Chris101 Active Member

    Location:
    London
    The
    They tested the UFH prior to the screed going down and then again in around a few days once the screed went on top (they were walking on the screed 24hrs after it was put down).
     
  27. Chris101

    Chris101 Active Member

    Location:
    London
    No one tested the screed to see if it was dry...
    There are 2-3 long cracks within the screed.

    How do you think we should now proceed and what needs to be done to rectify?
     
  28. Albert

    Albert Professional Tiler Top Contributor

    Location:
    Gateshead NE8, UK
    Stop the tiler, take up what has been laid,slc, decoupler and retile. In my humble opinion. I may be corrected but thats what i would do
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  29. Localtiler

    Localtiler Professional Tiler Top Contributor

    Location:
    Yorkshire
    concrete needs to set slowly to get its strength, often it's covered to retain moisture. Deffinately shouldn't have the heating on straight away. As above, all tiles up, get some moisture tests done and see what your dealing with, once its dry enough, level
    It where needed, fit an uncoupler and tile - properly
     
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    • Agree Agree x 1
  30. Martyn Leeds

    Martyn Leeds Professional Tiler

    Location:
    Leeds
    Is there more to the story as to why we are questioning everything? Previous form perhaps.
    I'm guessing the tiler is an employee of the builder?
    'Cos otherwise, any tiler would be seriously questioning the procedures from the builder
     
  31. Chris101

    Chris101 Active Member

    Location:
    London
    Questioning everything is based on previous experiences and as we are having our whole kitchen renovated and putting a new expensive kitchen in, we want to try and make sure that all correct methods are carried out (the tradesman had missed things out when it has come to the wiring and pluming due to not following the plans we had printed out and left for them and subsequently we had to walk them through to make sure nothing was missed out).

    The Tiler is subcontracted by the construction company
     
  32. jcrtiling

    jcrtiling Professional Tiler TTA Member Top Contributor

    Location:
    Salisbury
    To be honest if it is a builder you are using I would of got them to replace the concrete floor and then either project manage the rest of the trades yourself or get the kitchen company to do so .
     
  33. Andystiletiling

    Andystiletiling Professional Tiler

    Location:
    Burnley
    Given the fact they were being filmed etc you'd have thought everything would have been followed to the letter, yet it would seem they couldn't have done much more wrong with the job..
     
  34. Chris101

    Chris101 Active Member

    Location:
    London
    The attached pictures are of the finished screed on the concrete floor with UFH.

    20170903_143531.jpg 20170903_143507.jpg 20170903_143441.jpg
     
  35. Chris101

    Chris101 Active Member

    Location:
    London
    The flooring itself has been done by the same construction company.
    Initially we had suspended wooden flooring, which they got rid off to put concrete down - the whole area is around 40m2
     
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