Tiling over 22mm T&G chipboard

[Mark1979]

Hi,

I'm currently renovating and my next job is tiling. I have new T&G 22mm chipboard screwed down in the new living room extension on joists well above specification so it shouldn't move but it is chipboard so it might in time. I've now decided to install quartz tiles...

My understanding having taken a lot of advice is that I need to:

- prime the chipboard (with something like BAL Prime APD)

- Install hardi backer 6mm on a layer of 2 part flexible adhesive (no water) with 6mm trowel and screw down (taping edges per manufacturer instructions and staggering boards so joints don't meet)

- install tiles using a 2 part flexible adhesive (6mm trowel) per above

- use flexible grout (or epoxy grout)

I'd appreciate any comments you may have and also your suggestions for the 2 part flexible adhesive and grout/epoxy grout to use. Once it's done it'll be down 20 years so don't want to skimp or miss something and cause a later problem.

thanks in advance

 

[Flintstone]

Nearly right, the two part isn’t essential for under the hardie backer but won’t hurt. The trowel for sticking the tiles will need to be greater than 6mm, depending on tile size, 600x600 ? Then a 12mm would be better.
With regards to grout, regular flexible grout should be fine.

 

[Mark1979]

Hi

Thanks for the prompt response.

I'm not 100% sure yet but the tiles will either be 400 by 400 or 600 by 600. Would you still use a 12mm trowel for the 400's?

Are there any particular brands you'd recommend for the 2 part? or are they all much of the same?

Regards,

Mark

 

[Blunt Tool]

Mapei is readily available in most areas and very reliable.

 

[LM]

Personally speaking I’d opt for Schluter Ditra 25 uncoupling membrane stuck down to the chipboard with Ardex AF200 and then lay the tiles with a minimum C2 adhesive.
What are the dimensions of the area, have you considered expansion joints?

 

[Mark1979]

Personally speaking I’d opt for Schluter Ditra 25 uncoupling membrane stuck down to the chipboard with Ardex AF200 and then lay the tiles with a minimum C2 adhesive.
What are the dimensions of the area, have you considered expansion joints?

Hi Lee Mack, thanks for your comment.

The topic of expansion joints did come up at the start and I think we got to not needing them but I cant remember the detail of the discussion. The area is approximately 7 meters by 6 meters and I think I was told that I'd only need them if it was 8 meters in any direction. Does that sound right to you?

Regards,

Mark

 

[LM]

Hi Lee Mack, thanks for your comment.

The topic of expansion joints did come up at the start and I think we got to not needing them but I cant remember the detail of the discussion. The area is approximately 7 meters by 6 meters and I think I was told that I'd only need them if it was 8 meters in any direction. Does that sound right to you?

Regards,

Mark

I don’t know how but I’ve just realised that it’s a Quartz tile you’re fitting, don’t know how I missed that in the title at first Do what @Local has suggested.

 

[muddyfunkster29]

I would check with your supplier if the Quartz tile is ok to be fixed over underfloor heating. Some manufacturers don`t recommend fixing over electric ufh, I`m not sure whether the same applies to wet ufh.

 

[Mark1979]

I would check with your supplier if the Quartz tile is ok to be fixed over underfloor heating. Some manufacturers don`t recommend fixing over electric ufh, I`m not sure whether the same applies to wet ufh.

Hi Muddy - there's no underfloor heating

 

[muddyfunkster29]

I would go with Localtilers spec then mate. Crack on Sir!!!

 

[dynamictiling]

Mind use latex adhesive.

 

[McLovin]

If you are installing Quartz then I would use Tile Master Ultimate as the adhesive.

I personally would fix tile backer board 10mm over the T&G floor. Fixed with adhesive and screws. Its easier to worth its that Hbacker.

Thats what I would do.

 

[Mark1979]

If you are installing Quartz then I would use Tile Master Ultimate as the adhesive.

I personally would fix tile backer board 10mm over the T&G floor. Fixed with adhesive and screws. Its easier to worth its that Hbacker.

Thats what I would do.

Hi McLovin,

I've heard a few people singing the praises of tile master ultimate. Is it a two part?

 

[Flintstone]

No it’s 1 part s2

 

[McLovin]

Here is the link for it Mark : Ultimate Floor & Wall Tile Adhesive | Tilemaster Adhesives - http://www.tilemasteradhesives.co.uk/adhesives/ultimate-flexible-tile-adhesive

Im not a big fan of the latex adhesives.

I always use 12mm on the floor. Don't forget to back butter as well.

 

[Mark1979]

No it’s 1 part s2

Can I use that with Quartz and Chipboard then? a few people have suggested keeping water as far away from it as I can?

 

[McLovin]

You could use it over Chipboard if you wanted. I personally would not. Its more work that standard adhesive. 22mm chip board should be fine in my opinion. However personally I don't ever like tiling over chipboard.

I would use a good flexable adhesive under the Backer board and then Tile master S2 to fix the quartz.

Id let the boards dry over night before you start to install the Quartz.

 

[Mark1979]

You could use it over Chipboard if you wanted. I personally would not. Its more work that standard adhesive. 22mm chip board should be fine in my opinion. However personally I don't ever like tiling over chipboard.

I would use a good flexable adhesive under the Backer board and then Tile master S2 to fix the quartz.

Id let the boards dry over night before you start to install the Quartz.

Thanks, so under the backer board what would you use?

 

[Unused Account 1]

Just use ditra matting onto chipboard much easier

 

[Flintstone]

I wouldn’t.

 

[Rookery]

So you want to fix big expensive quartz tiles onto a suspended unheated timber floor measuring about 7.0 x 6.0. Is that right? My method would be to:
1. Screw timber floor boards to joists.
2. Overlay timber floor with 6mm Hardie backer board.
3. Fix Hardie with appropriate screws and rapid set flexible adhesive.
4. Fix Ditra matting to Hardie with appropriate adhesive.
5. Tile away following manufacturers advice especially following grout size etc but I would imagine minimum 5mm joint. I would expect to see a similar movement joints too - both perimeter and intermediate ones. This is an expensive product so no short measures. Back skim every tile and set in with min 15mm notched trowel.


Of course others may disagree .......

 

[Rookery]

Adhesives wise, there are many good ones on the market. I almost always use Mapei products which in my eyes are a good comprise between cost, performance, quality and availability.

 

[Flintstone]

Of course others may disagree .......

Yes, me!

 

[Mark1979]

So you want to fix big expensive quartz tiles onto a suspended unheated timber floor measuring about 7.0 x 6.0. Is that right? My method would be to:
1. Screw timber floor boards to joists.
2. Overlay timber floor with 6mm Hardie backer board.
3. Fix Hardie with appropriate screws and rapid set flexible adhesive.
4. Fix Ditra matting to Hardie with appropriate adhesive.
5. Tile away following manufacturers advice especially following grout size etc but I would imagine minimum 5mm joint. I would expect to see a similar movement joints too - both perimeter and intermediate ones. This is an expensive product so no short measures. Back skim every tile and set in with min 15mm notched trowel.


Of course others may disagree .......

Thanks Rookery, interesting you mention back skimming, I used to think it was overkill as pushing down would fill voids without but watched a utube demo on various substrates that convinced me of the merits of covering the back of the tile - much stronger bond - some of the non buttered ones could just be popped whole a week later. I presume you just cover the back of the tile to eliminate voids rather than using the notched bit of the trowel on the tiles like you do for the floor?

In terms of Ditra over the top of Hardie, would that have any material benefit. I initially chose the Hardie route because it was suggested you get a much better bond than with the Ditra and wouldnt the flexible adhesive under the Hardie be doing the same decoupling job that the Ditra is doing?

 

[MarshallTile]

Try Nicobond plastic ply, it's the future!

 

[LM]

Try Nicobond plastic ply, it's the future!

I’ve never heard of it, could you tell me why it’s so good? I love learning about new materials.

 

[Mark1979]

Try Nicobond plastic ply, it's the future!

Hi, I've just googled it and am no expert so please ignore my ignorance, but I'm struggling to understand how this works if everything I've been told about Ditra/Hardie method is correct. How is it better then just tiling on chipboard as surely the plastic mesh just transfers any movement from the wood to the tile?

 

[LM]

Schlüter®-DITRA 25 | Function | Schlüter-Systems - http://www.schluter.co.uk/ditra-25.aspx

Have a read through this and hopefully it will help. It explains how the Ditra separates the movement from the substrate and the tiles.

 

[Mark1979]

Schlüter®-DITRA 25 | Function | Schlüter-Systems - http://www.schluter.co.uk/ditra-25.aspx

Have a read through this and hopefully it will help. It explains how the Ditra separates the movement from the substrate and the tiles.

Thanks Lee Mac, sorry, perhaps I wasn't clear, I do understand the logic of the Ditra and Hardie, it's the logic of the plastic ply I'm struggling with. I just dont see how it's any better than just using thicker adhesive on chipboard as the adhesive fills the mesh.

 

[Blunt Tool]

I’ve never heard of it, could you tell me why it’s so good? I love learning about new materials.

It’s just a plastic self adhesive grid just like the stuff that you can put on the back of mosaics to stiffen them up. Not very impressive tbh