Badly cracked limestone - can I replace individually with decoupling

[Kenco]

self build completed 10 years ago, large kitchen diner on 65mm hand mixed screed, with no stress relief joints & wet UFH!

Tiled with limestone, found that the tilers switched to cheaper adhesive not suitable for UFH approx a third of the way through the job, they then added flex fluid to the remaining adhesive! Was not happy at the time...

I have multiple cracks in the tiles, star shaped in places so likely stress cracks from the screed.

Of course if I knew what I knew now, I would have decoupled. But too late.

Can I replace the several cracked tiles and fit decoupling membrane to these individual (or groups) of tiles and potentially get away with it?

Taking up the tiles 70m2 and relaying would be an expensive nightmare, as kitted kitchen, skirtings etc...

As a final thought, would home insurance likely cover any of it? Or am I just wasting my time perusing this route?

I Am tempted to take it all up eventually and replace with floating engineered hardwood floor.

Example Photos attached...

 

[WetSaw]

You already know the answer I'm afraid. It's probably only a matter of time before others crack so you'll be forever repairing the odd tile here and there.

 

[widler]

Like Paul says , it’s only going to get worse,in another 5 years, you will have probably lifted 90% of the floor and re fit if that’s the way you want to go.
Trav is extreamly brittle , and will crack if you look at it .
I’m going to get ripped for this on here, not bothered like
I tiled over a 60/70m2 trav floor, badly cracked after about 10years, much much worse than that.
I used TM matting and tiled with 1200x600 4.8mm porcalthin tiles, still there and solid as a rock weeks later

 

[J Sid]

I wouldn't lift any as would expect the screed to be failing as well.
clean out all the cracks with a suitable cleaner, Lithofin power clean, wet vac out dirt, leave to dry and resin fill cracks and polish back. live with it till you want a new floor.
lesson learnt the hard way....

 

[Kenco]

Wow... fast responses so far

Yes painful and expensive lesson learnt.

I cannot tile on top of the existing tiles as there would be too many height transitions to other surfaces (carpet in lounge and the remaining tiling that appears ok leading to the hall and utility.

I bought some coloured resin last year, and as suggested will probably see how that looks on the more severe cracks.

I used 2 different tilers when I built my house, they both were 2nd rate having looked back. Wish I had known about this forum beforehand...

 

[Kenco]

Any thoughts on whether an insurance claim may be viable?

 

[J Sid]

buy a colour to add to the clear resin.

insurance claim, all I can say is don't ring up and ask as this is then on there records and your premium will go up even if you don't claim or they say no.

if you screeded this floor by hand , one mix at a time this was probably imho the start of your problems.

 

[Kenco]

Hmmm, I rang the insurance last year, renewed since and it didn’t seem to go up, so maybe got lucky.

Yes, if I had my time again I would use liquid screed, stress joints, decoupling membrane without fail.

Just a shame ‘tradesmen’ are not aware of the risks when advising & doing the work.

I won’t even go into my 2 bathrooms that have cracked due to tiling straight on board, I even called a adhesive company at the time and they said it would be ok. They were wrong!

 

[Dumbo]

Hmmm, I rang the insurance last year, renewed since and it didn’t seem to go up, so maybe got lucky.

Yes, if I had my time again I would use liquid screed, stress joints, decoupling membrane without fail.

Just a shame ‘tradesmen’ are not aware of the risks when advising & doing the work.

I won’t even go into my 2 bathrooms that have cracked due to tiling straight on board, I even called a adhesive company at the time and they said it would be ok. They were wrong!

Fair enough you saying about tradesmen but what we are up against most of the time that once the client has bought the tiles they think that's the big part of the money spent , then when you tell them labour costs , material costs and then start on about things like membranes and movement joints they like to think are they really necessary and can we leave that part of the job out .

 

[Kenco]

I totally agree with you.

I don’t envy you guys because to do the job PROPERLY is expensive.

Proper suitable sub floor
Correct drying technique
Quality adhesives/grouts
Decoupling membrane
Quality sealant
Skilled fitting

It becomes very apparent that the tiles are a small fraction of the actual overall cost...

 

[Bill]

I totally agree with you.

I don’t envy you guys because to do the job PROPERLY is expensive.

Proper suitable sub floor
Correct drying technique
Quality adhesives/grouts
Decoupling membrane
Quality sealant
Skilled fitting

It becomes very apparent that the tiles are a small fraction of the actual overall cost...

This post should be pinned to the top of the page....
'I need some help'

 

[Kenco]

So does anyone think that I might be able to replace a few tiles and 'individually' decouple them to stop the subfloor crack migrating to the tile?

Anyone ever tried it?

 

[Bathfix Bob]

Yes me, in my own house I tiled the bathroom floor in 2012 and like a fool I had a hardiebacker join 20mm from a chipboard join and had a fracture across two tiles at the side of the shower tray. I lived with it for a year but everytime I walked over the crack it annoyed the hell out of me.

I smashed up the tiles carefully and got the hardie up and bonded down a piece of leftover Ditra mat and put the tiles back.

I even had some cream grout left over from 7 years ago and I thought I would try it (never in a customers house) and it worked and set perfectly.

 

[Wishiwasatoptiler]

I had two 600x600 tiles crack in a new build 6 months after install, customer wouldn't pay for mat on origanal install, took hours to lift them, taking back to base, used mapei 1mm mat and installed new tiles. No probs 6 months later. You have to be so careful near the edge of the rest of the tiles.

 

[Bathfix Bob]

I had two 600x600 tiles crack in a new build 6 months after install, customer wouldn't pay for mat on origanal install, took hours to lift them, taking back to base, used mapei 1mm mat and installed new tiles. No probs 6 months later. You have to be so careful near the edge of the rest of the tiles.

Yes, I gaffer taped the edges and usding a 7mm SDS bit I machine gunned the tiles keeping away from edges its a right painstaking slog.

 

[Wishiwasatoptiler]

Snap. Was a pain. But its a good story to tell future clients so they have mat down at install.

 

[Kenco]

I may give it a go, nowt to lose really!

 

[Kenco]

I’m planning to take up a particularly badly cracked limestone tile (600 x 300). I will remove all adhesive and try Ditra matting as I believe there is enough depth free as the adhesive was particularly thick in this area to keep the level.

What flexible adhesive & grout would you recommend (screed has wet UFH) ?

Thanks

 

[Unused Account 1]

Should of been ditra mat iin the first place

 

[Kenco]

Should of been ditra mat iin the first place

Thanks Sherlock, I know that now!

 

[Spare Tool]

Have you thought about using a thin crackmat instead of ditra, they're usually less than 1mm thick.. tile master and bal to name a couple