Why do people do tiling courses!

[DevonChris]

Hi all,
seen so many people just finished courses but, understandably, needing lots of help and scared of doing big jobs, etc.
Also, people wanting to be tilers all want to know which course to do.
As courses are not recognised by people who employ you (unlike electricians,etc) why don't people just learn the way people used to and work with a tiler. After a couple of years they've learnt all they need to know without relying on tile forums to tell them what adhesive they should be using.
I may be missing something and I am prepared to be corrected!

 

[DHTiling]

Tile forums aren't just for people who have been on courses.. they are for anybody looking for advise..be it new comers to tiling..DIY or even time served tilers who have come across something new and need tips on installing it etc.....
A tiling course is designed to give a basic structure to the knowledge of tiling..mostly designed for peeps who just want to tile there own bathrooms etc....and some peeps then try to go on and become full time fixers....
There are not by far enough fixers or company's who would take on new comers.. so these courses are a way of breaking in to the tiling game...
Yes! as we know they don't teach all you will come across in the tiling industry but being taught some basics is better than just turning up at some ones house and tiling with no knowledge............

 

[GazTech]

People will go on a tiling course, to see if they like the idea of tiling for a living. People will also do a course to learn basics to do a job for themselves.
Not all tilers want to take apprentices on nowadays.
I will answer peoples questions on whatever subject without wanting to know their motives...I impart my knowledge because I enjoy it.
Chris I know you have tiled for 15 yrs, but would you like to formally introduce yourself to the other members...just to be polite .....Gaz
http://www.tilersforums.com/new-members-say-hi-here/

 

[shaney2000000]

i agree serve you time ,or make mistakes and give tilers a bad name.People

 

[tfs]

From my point of veiw, Im doing a years course in tiling as I have tried so hard to gain employment with a tiler. I have offered my assistance for free labouring and hoping to learn.

I personally believe it can be very difficult, especially for mature people from theirs twenties to fifties, sometime older.

I have a good alround set of skills and could be a great asset to atiler if they gave me the chance. I have not been lucky enough to get a chance. To be honest, unless I gained employment from a passionate and knowledgable tiler I probabl;y woudn't be happy to work them, but thats just me.

I can also understand that this type of thing can be frustrating for a time served tiler. These guys worked hard and trained to be where they are today and then some wanna b's just do a weeks course and try to muscle in on the trade, and I guess to some extent undervalue the fact that a real tiler is a highly skilled and knowledgable person.

Even on the course Im doing just now I get random fools making comments like' why you doing tiling, anyone can do that'. Aye right, these are the t***s that think they can tile cos they stick a few tiles to a wall in there kitchen. (most dont even do a decent job) I am not a qualified tiler but, still this kind of attitude pis#*es me of big time.

kris
----
May I just say to people on here, I only do jobs that I feel i can do to a good standard. I take my time and always let people know that I am currently training to be a tiler so, they know what their getting. I tell them also that I may be slower than a tiler too.

p.s. I am looking for a job as trainee or apprentice if anyone is interested! lol

 

[DHTiling]

Kris don't worry mate..these peeps will come and go...you just keep plodding mate.. you will get there... We don't all think like this mate....

 

[tfs]

Cheers Dave,

I do totaly understand where this guy is coming from thogu. There are alot of people offering tiling services and taking on jobs that they really are not up to.

 

[DHTiling]

Its the same with all trades kris...and it will never change.....

 

[IvegotsTILE]

I only did a weeks course and I'm doing alright and do a fantastic job.
I couldn't shadow a tiler for a year to get experience,I have bills to pay so can't work for nothing.
I don't think I'd ever take anyone on in the future simply cause he'll be after the same work as me in the future,thats why no-one else will take anyone on.You have to look after yourself and your family first.

 

[Jimmy Boy]

I can show you some BOVIS built houses where I live that were bricked by so called bricklayers ... I think using the horizon as a level!?!?

Hey Kris, I got a pal who said to me "tiling is a piece of p***" after he heard i'd been on a course.
I've seen his bathroom wall, I bet you don't have to guess more than once where you think his starting point was, and I gotta say he's right, it would be p*** easy to get the result he's got. And obviously his bath is not level

 

[White Room]

Its the same with all trades kris...and it will never change.....

Got to agree with Dave on this one Chris, I think you'll find that a lot guy's are changing their careers at a later age and there going to find it difficult to find work with a one man band, which what most are doing now, my self included, I've employed people and found it's just not worth the hassle. I was on site work back in 1972 and we where having chancers coming on site then, so believe me this is'nt a new issue that's just reared it's head, but the guy's have to get their training from somewhere and I feel courses are the only option.

 

[GazTech]

Lets face it...the Govmnt...dont give a sh1te....every man for his self, self-opportunity reigns supreme, pay your taxes and work overtime for the ones living on benefit...at least these people paying to go on courses are wanting to work and offer a service to people for an honest wage, not robbing or tossing it up against some wall,... at someone elses expense...so back off....Gaz

 

[DevonChris]

I wasn't having a go at anyone for doing them, I just wondered if it was the best thing to do to get in the trade as you don't really learn till you've been doing it for a while.
If people wont take you on, you have no choice so its a good idea.
And I for one, am not afraid to see new tilers as there's plenty of work for everyone. I've trained up many people and they use the same contacts but I'm happy for them!
Sorry for not introducing myself Gaz, didn't realise how much it must mean to you.
Hello, my name is Chris and I'm a tiler.....just to be polite...

 

[pete22]

tiling courses

people do courses to gain knowledge for a certain trade because nowadays there are not many apprenterships being offered.my dad,back in the 60s done a five year enginering apprentership,you would be lucky to find a year long one now!i was layed of from my job last year and decided to get a trade but was offered no help what so ever from the goverment,i had to get a loan to pay for the course i attended(8wk course).i decided on tiling because ive done some tiling at home before and enjoyed it-i now realise how crap my tiling was not really knowing what i was doing! tiling is a skill,people think you just start in the corner and away you go iused to! i take pride in my work,and want the finished product to look good ,i did the course to get a trade to gain a skill not to earn a fast buck!!

 

[Perry]

the funny thing about this is i have employed 20-30 tilers over the years but have found that the time served ones haven't been very good for the type of work i have done all the best ones have been self taught or had no experience at all (i am not knocking the time served guys i have seen many good guys out there its just whats happened to me over the years maybe i am just unlucky : Pete

 

[brian c]

Personally the courses especially the good ones can be life turning for many people and i for one attended a course which was very informative and taught me how to set up my business which i am greatful for.Like Pete says because people are time served does not necessarily mean that they are better tilers,i know of a few tilers who spent years grouting and polishing the grout (DRY POLISH WITH CLOTH ON GROUT LINES,LEAVES FIRST CLASS FINISH)before they even got to lay a tileand having served an apprenticeship in another trade we all know that a lot of time spent at college is no better than being forced to go to school because you have to and when we are on a job we are standing watching bored out our heads.ON the otherhand people who attend a course and pay attention to everything then go it alone in tiling may be better and more eager than the aforementioned,so it has its pros and cons and i am open minded about all short courses. Bri.

 

[Yorkie]

Every Friday we cover business start up and today was no different, I got out the projectors put the internet on widescreen 150x150 (brilliant for watching the footie !) And clicked on connect. We have a new class that started this week and as always we start by showing everyone some really useful sites that they can have a look at ,this site being one of them . As I showed them how to navigate around I noticed a private messages from Dave asking if I would like to comment on the above post, so I flashed the thread up for the whole class to see read and discuss. And as everyone who’s replied to this thread so far have pointed out the reasons why individuals will choose to do a professional Tiling course as opposed to the traditional methods Vary .Below are just a few examples of the type of students and reasons that they decided to take the alternative route and opt for an intensive course ( I’m speaking for ex students the ones who I spoke to today can answer for themselves)

Older /mature students: They find it near impossible to attend a college course as its just not practical! They can’t afford to have little to no income for an extended time and need to be earning as soon as possible.

Redundancy. No such thing as a job for life is there ! Individuals may no longer want to rely on employers to earn a living so decide that they will be better of taking care of their own future by retraining.

Emigrating: We have taught many students who are leaving these sunny shores and going somewhere rainy and miserable like Australia who need to satisfy the entry system by showing they’ve been trained to a professional level by an accredited centre and have the correct certification to prove it.

Resettlement: Armed forces personnel that are leaving the forces (this one speaks for itself)

Theres many other reasons besides the above but i'd be here all day listing them lol

I can see your point about trying to work with another Tiler but this is flawed for many reasons such as:

The Tiler that is training you on the job is in fact showing you the wrong techniques and applications. If this happens your buggered from the start really aren’t you as your going to be a mini me of that Tiler and pick up and then put into practice all of his bad habits as you find that you stick to the way were taught. By being professionally tutored you know the methods are correct and that all relevant standards are being adhered to.
Also Majority of Tilers aren’t willing to take people on as 1, they haven’t got the time and 2 Why would they teach someone who will end up becoming competition?

In my experience most people either underestimate the amount there is to learn or more fatally over estimate their own Knowledge.
Its not just dot dot dot and dab!!!

 

[Raja]

i have been tiling for 6 years and worked with my partner who has tiled for 17 years i can assure u that i have and will in the future go on tiling courses to enhance my knowledge they are an invaluable asset to the comunities they servce i would recommend them to any one. In my tiling career i started off in 2001 at the sheffield college gaining an nvq level 2 in wall & floor tiling and a tiling course lasting 1 year. I then went onto a week long in 2004 by henry boot training and recently tried to go on a course with BAL but no joy yet.
There r some dodgy ones out there wont say no names but 1 in doncaster lol finally we are all very opinionated in our own ways BUT i think is was very unfair for the earlier tiler to say people shouldnt have to come on places like the tilers forum to find out what adhesive to use. EVERY DAY IS A SCHOOL DAY and it takes a brave man to set up a site like this i know i could't do it.

 

[Jimmy Boy]

I'm an experienced driver of over 25 years (time served driver? lol) but I could not teach my wife to drive the correct way in a month of Sundays.

Yeah, you could go with an experienced tiler for a year or two but how many people can actually instruct another person in a way that makes them understand. I doubt many time served tilers as you call them could teach anyone in informative way.
Teaching in a clear and understood way itself is not as simple a task as most believe.

 

[Dicko1973]

i agree serve you time ,or make mistakes and give tilers a bad name.People

Great comment Shaney.

Working on sites with tilers all the time I see the standard of work so-called time served tilers produce. And 70% of the time there back on site putting it right come the end of the job. I'm not saying quick course tilers are better than time served tilers but a rough tiler will be a rough tiler no matter how he learnt it.
But don't think for a minute that it is just the quick learners who will give tilers a bad name.
You would also be surprised by the amount of knowledge you can get from a weeks course,clearly not the vast amount of knowledge you have i'm sure but I have enough to feel confident to do any job anywhere on any surface using any tile.
I am also extremely conscientous about the work I produce and haven't had a call back yet.
Not bad for a week learner giving the rest of you a bad name.

Rich :furious3: :furious3:

 

[Yorkie]

I'm an experienced driver of over 25 years (time served driver? lol) but I could not teach my wife to drive the correct way in a month of Sundays.

Yeah, you could go with an experienced tiler for a year or two but how many people can actually instruct another person in a way that makes them understand. I doubt many time served tilers as you call them could teach anyone in informative way.
Teaching in a clear and understood way itself is not as simple a task as most believe.

Excactly especially if it was my wife lol

Everyone learns on different levels its finding the one that works for you.
I personally have even taught a deaf guy believe it or not who works within the disabled community dhdesigntiling.co.uk

 

[DevonChris]

I think that most of you have missed that I was asking a genuine question and have had the answers I was looking for and was never dissing this site.
I have made some observations from the replies:
Most of you are very defensive and have defended things that weren't mentioned.
People do courses to launch a new career without having to learn properly but it's ok because they don't have time or money to do it right.
Some can't get enough of the courses because they can't learn by themselves.
Some believe that full time tilers are usually rubbish so aren't worth learning from anyway.
Coincidently, I met an apprentice at work today who spent £1200 on a course and said it was a total waste of time and money as he was in no state to tile on his own afterwards which was the point of the course.
Luckily. he's now learning the proper way.
By the way, good tilers don't mess around doing domestic rubbish, they do 100s of metres of commercial and need apprentices to help lay it and bring home £300-£1700 every day. (And you lot probably wont believe that because you can't bring yourselves to).

 

[quick draw macgraw]

I attended the couse to do jobs for myself and have done work for friends at a good standard and had no comebacks only recomendations. I work for rolls royce producing aero engine components worth anything upto £50,000 with tight tolerences and feel i could teach any one of you to produce the same part within maybe two weeks without any prior knowledge but when i'm asked to apply 25 pence tiles onto a kitchen wall i get all nervous and thats because i want to do a good job and not get slagged off, its all down to the person as there are those that give a toss and those who only think of themselves, i'd rather refuse a job than make a hash of it.i'm not up my own backside thinking i know it all, and thats why i havn't chucked my job yet cos i dont consider myself a full blown tiler that comes with years experience as does being an engineer (sorry two weeks).:whatchutalkingabout

Cheers Steve.

P.S. flying a plane is a piece of pee as well i tried an hour trial and found its not as hard as it looks!! Just takes practice like everything else.

P.P.S still trying to please the wife after 17 yrs and got nowhere

 

[tfs]

Chris,

I din't take offecne to your post mate. Hope I got my point of view across though.

kris

 

[Raja]

Some can't get enough of the courses because they can't learn by themselves.
lost for words here we have an expert

 

[Dicko1973]

Chris

People probably missed the point because of the way you write .

Your last comment starts off like a well meaning one then you finish it with comments like the domestic rubbish one and then the one where none of us are able to believe what you tell us.

Is it really any wonder people think your dissing them. I'm sure people on here pay mortgages with the domestic rubbish you're on about. And maybe we do believe you on how much they earn maybe some of us Particuarly me don't care if joe bloggs can earn £1700 a day, good luck to him.

I don't know if you can bring yourself to beleive this but it is not all about the money.

And I don't think anyone has missed your point Chris you're making it crystal clear.

 

[Raja]

thank u dicko

 

[Yorkie]

People do courses to launch a new career without having to learn properly
I find this comment extremley offensive.

Coincidently, I met an apprentice at work today who spent £1200 on a course and said it was a total waste of time and money as he was in no state to tile on his own afterwards which was the point of the course.
Luckily. he's now learning the proper way.

Unfortunatley theirs the Good the bad and the ugly in every Industry, Training is no different.

By the way, good tilers don't mess around doing domestic rubbish, they do 100s of metres of commercial and need apprentices to help lay it and bring home £300-£1700 every day. (And you lot probably wont believe that)

People can judge this comment for themselves and make their own mind up

Anyone would think that youre trying to put of new tilers attending courses? ulterior motive maybe? Scared of competition? etc...

 

[tfs]

Ok,

I think this post has given Chris plenty of feedback on his question.

Time for us all to stop now I think.

lol

kris

 

[DevonChris]

Sorry to annoy you all but my last reply was a wind up as I felt some of you did over react to the first question.
That's annoyed you again hasn't it!