Is there an Alternative to The Tile Association (TTA)?

[Dan]

A couple of options perhaps, but they tend to come back to TTA.

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[Italy]

EUF
European Union of associations of strata, whose main purpose is to foster dialogue and communication in the ceramics supply chain at European level, in collaboration with the 12 national member associations.
TTA I think he is a member of euf

 

[Dan]

Yeah. I'm just wondering if we have another association.

And whether the british standards actually name TTA as who you have to be with or else your tiling isn't to standard?!

Am I getting this right?

You HAVE to be with "an association like TTA" or else your tiling isn't to standard anymore?

Does is name TTA @Paul C. in the BS books now?


"Tiling should be carried out by a skilled operative, who has been trained to a level of competence, certified by a recognised authoritative body, such as the TTA"
Source URL: BS 5385 Part 1: 2018 - Tiling Standards - https://www.tilersforums.com/threads/bs-5385-part-1-2018-tiling-standards.89734/

So they're certifying tiling now? Do we have to notify them of every job that gets done now too? Like the electrical and gas industries?

Seems a bit far fetched for tiling.

PMSL

 

[Tile Shop]

The TTA get a couple of mentions in recent updates and I think the Stone Federation gets an honourable or two, but other than that, not really. Tiling Standards.

 

[Italy]

here it is not mandatory to be associated.
nothing requires being a member of a assoposa
however they are trying to go in that direction,

 

[Dan]

Yeah. I'm just wondering if we have another association.

And whether the british standards actually name TTA as who you have to be with or else your tiling isn't to standard?!

Am I getting this right?

You HAVE to be with "an association like TTA" or else your tiling isn't to standard anymore?

Does is name TTA @Paul C. in the BS books now?


"Tiling should be carried out by a skilled operative, who has been trained to a level of competence, certified by a recognised authoritative body, such as the TTA"
Source URL: BS 5385 Part 1: 2018 - Tiling Standards - https://www.tilersforums.com/threads/bs-5385-part-1-2018-tiling-standards.89734/

So they're certifying tiling now? Do we have to notify them of every job that gets done now too? Like the electrical and gas industries?

Seems a bit far fetched for tiling.

PMSL

Trimline have quoted it as the first major change in their press release. And have literally said "Certified by an association such as The Tile Association". Yet they don't certify jobs. So surely it doesn't say that in the literature.

Should have some clarification from TTA?

 

[J Sid]

Are you saying Dan that if your not a TTA member you don't have follow BS? Or if your not a TTA member you can't fix tiles now?

 

[Dan]

I'm not sure.

So I'm reading it, it's quoted everywhere, here is Able Skills quoting it too.

Trimline I originally quoted it. So it's a press release by TTA perhaps. And they've stuck it in maybe?

Or it's fact. And it's in the actual standards maybe.

But the way I'm reading it, is, your tiling is certified by TTA. Or it isn't, and it's not proper tiling now.

So if you're not with TTA, your tiling will always lose in court when somebody questions it?

My own thinking has caused loads more questions. lol

 

[Tile Shop]

Someone did question this on Tilezine. Peter C....... can't comment if he was telling the whole truth or not, but got the answer he was searching for. Take a look at his point and the response he got. In fairness to the TTA, whether a tiler is a member or not, they know and appreciate good workmanship and a good tiler when they see one. They just wanna see better work from people by whatever means and put a stop to dodgy work being turned out. As @timeless john has said on many occasions, it gives the trade a bad name, whether you're a good tiler or not. Can't really blame them. Got to admit we see and hear about some real shockers.

 

[Dumbo]

I'm not sure.

So I'm reading it, it's quoted everywhere, here is Able Skills quoting it too: Changes to British Tiling Standards - https://www.ableskills.co.uk/blog/changes-british-tiling-standards/

Trimline I originally quoted it. So it's a press release by TTA perhaps. And they've stuck it in maybe?

Or it's fact. And it's in the actual standards maybe.

But the way I'm reading it, is, your tiling is certified by TTA. Or it isn't, and it's not proper tiling now.

So if you're not with TTA, your tiling will always lose in court when somebody questions it?

My own thinking has caused loads more questions. lol

I would think city in guilds and nvq's have some relevance

 

[Dan]

I would think city in guilds and nvq's have some relevance

I know some tilers in the TTA directory who's dad is good but he's not. And it's his name now there.

Qualified tiler is should say. Not TTA member.

Qualified all the way. Association who doesn't vet the tiler? Nope not for me.

 

[Tiler Durden]

It’ll come to all trades eventually. It started many moons ago with Gas, then moved onto electrics with the introduction of Part P of the Building Regs and the sudden emergence of the associated governing bodies (NICEIC, NAPIT etc) they have tried to bring it in for Plumbing but failed yet a few Manufacturers have stated that such and such item isn’t covered by a warranty unless it was installed by a City and Guilds/NVQ Qualified Plumber which is absurd when you’re talking about a Tap. I can’t see it making it’s way into the mainstream for Tiling for a very long time. It’s a money making scheme, nothing more.

 

[One Day]

The Americans have it right. Two separate bodies - one for the industry and one for the fixers.
Ours is completely flawed and will never work because it's trying to be an industry body and only paying lip service to fixers.

 

[Dan]

I agree.

We're open now to the americans. I'm working on sparky SEO at the moment so haven't quite done here but we have spakry regulars from America posting every day.

I'll come over here for that once I know what's working. etc

But that'll get some heads over here. Show us how limited we are.

You need at least two associations for it to work. Gas Safe Register doesn't work right really. NICEIC and ELECSA have flaws but you have options in the electrical field so that it causes competition.

TTA have now done that, it HAS to cause another to setup. One for the fixers.

Any chatter about this on Facebook?

I think we know the few main heads who need to run it. I'd back it from a website point of view (a new one, have it locked down in Google. Even wipe the floor with TTA rankings for their own terms).

We need a discussion forum making for just those who can make it work.

Rate I make one and we get some heads in here?

 

[Dan]

Are you saying Dan that if your not a TTA member you don't have follow BS? Or if your not a TTA member you can't fix tiles now?

If you're not a TTA Member, your tiling isn't to British Standards spec. Is what is reads like. I'm trying to get clarification from TTA themselves. I've sent them an email. I'll do some testing tomorrow.

 

[Dan]

Okay. I've created a hidden forum. And need some heads to put in there. Who would be serious about making a new association (I would just do some leg work, it wouldn't be me fronting it).
We need the heads like @Ray TT @ Porcel-Thin and @deanotile maybe and some other really respected industry guys.

Maybe @Phil Hobson - Who better for that?

And some other really established guys.

I've given @3_fall the job of choosing who we have in there to chat about it. Aim for a year end start April, say?

See what we can pull off by then. Let's give it a serious go maybe?

 

[Italy]

The Americans have it right. Two separate bodies - one for the industry and one for the fixers.
Ours is completely flawed and will never work because it's trying to be an industry body and only paying lip service to fixers.

also here two associations... ...

 

[Dumbo]

Also problem being the body that set industry standards don't want to share the information unless you pay exorbitant amounts for it.
Tcna handbook is 35 dollars

 

[Old Mod]

Also problem being the body that set industry standards don't want to share the information unless you pay exorbitant amounts for it.
Tcna handbook is 35 dollars

A mans gotta eat Jerry. 😁
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Anyway BS is around £1200 isn’t it for non members, $35 is a steal! 🤣

 

[Dumbo]

It's not surprising that there is a lot of myth and mystery about what is bs and what isn't bs when they dont want to share the information .

 

[Dan]

We can access British Standards for free. So can see what's in there.

But for them to manage get that one through the board / committee - "We want only tilers with an association like ours in the tile industry to be fixing tiles" when there is only them.

They'd have said "oh no there's the bathroom association so we're not alone".

But they wont take tilers on etc.

 

[acaciaguy]

Fully agree. You will be judged by the standards but not allowed them easily to work from. If they are really interested in raising standards give them away or really cheaply. It’s like being done for not following the Highway Code but you can’t find what the tiles are

 

[Dan]

50p to join

The
Workers
Association of
Tiling
Services

Fixers only. Non-profit. Tile to British Standards spec again.
We will do reports for the cost of expenses getting the nearest qualified tiler to the job to look at it. No profit at all from those. Take the report to court along with the British Standards paragraph.

We will be qualification based, or Grandfather rights and no quals.
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Fully agree. You will be judged by the standards but not allowed them easily to work from. If they are really interested in raising standards give them away or really cheaply. It’s like being done for not following the Highway Code but you can’t find what the tiles are

TTA don't make the standards, they propose a change. So we should have been at that meeting really. That's what they've blocked us from. The chance to have ours say.

British Standards are free, all day long, at libraries and suchlike.

 

[Dumbo]

But who wants to mess about with that . We should just have a book we can open at page whatever to check things or tell the customer that's why we are doing it that way

 

[acaciaguy]

i go back and forth over whether to join the tta. But I would defo join an organisation that helps the trade and for us to get better

 

[Tile Shop]

TTA don't make the standards, they propose a change.

BS5385 parts 1,2,3,4 and 5 are agreed and written by BSI committee B/539, which consists of TTA, Stone Federation, RIBA, National Federation of Terrazzo, Lucidion, FeRFA, HSE, British Ceramics Confederation, BASA and the Building Research Establishment.

They also write the other standards on tile testing ISO's, tile specification categories, slip resistance, workmanship, grout and adhesive specs... 35 currently published standards and a further 33 currently being considered, drafted or written.
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In a weird way, they get to propose a change, then in another meeting, get to agree on their own proposal, but have to be in agreement with the other committee members.

 

[Dan]

BS5385 parts 1,2,3,4 and 5 are agreed and written by BSI committee B/539, which consists of TTA, Stone Federation, RIBA, National Federation of Terrazzo, Lucidion, FeRFA, HSE, British Ceramics Confederation, BASA and the Building Research Establishment.

They also write the other standards on tile testing ISO's, tile specification categories, slip resistance, workmanship, grout and adhesive specs... 35 currently published standards and a further 33 currently being considered, drafted or written.
[automerge]1568373157[/automerge]
In a weird way, they get to propose a change, then in another meeting, get to agree on their own proposal, but have to be in agreement with the other committee members.

So surely they have convinced the committee that this might wash with the industry, if they introduce it slowly and test the reaction?

If The Sun caught wind of it "Wall and Floor Tiler Not Allowed To Tile Loses Job For Life" it'd not pass at the next meeting when they propose it for 2,3,4 and 5 maybe?

Need this brexit lark sod off first. They wont run anything but that or a nip-slip at the moment.

 

[acaciaguy]

Being a member of the tta in and of itself isn’t a qualification. I’m not really sure what the base standard for joining them is. In order to join gas safe and any plumbing or electric approved schemes you must evidence your qualification nvq, city and guilds , Acs etc. These approved schemes are not qualifications themselves they are gate keepers such that if You wish to join as member you must have certain industry agreed qualifications. What qualifications does one need to join the tta. If there are none that are inline with the other approved schemes for trades I can’t see it being that by not being a member you are not a competent person. The main thing with electric , gas and plumbing approved schemes is that these allow you to self cert for building regs. Hence the high qualifications standard to join. BS are not law, just guidelines, however they are used to some extent to judge a good or bad job. Being aTta member doesn’t mean you are more or less likely to meet these standards.

 

[Dan]

We need more than one association if we HAVE to join one to get "certified" work done.

There can't be a monopoly like they have now.

Just IMO of course.

 

[acaciaguy]

Is it the tiler that’s needs certifying or the work done? Is it not the tiler who needs to meet a level of training / competence from an authoritative body? Like city and guilds / nvq etc.

With electrics. Plumbing. Gas. Certified refers to an approved contractor for building regs. Wras. Gas regs. 18th edition etc

There are no building regs / statutory tiling standards. Only bs which is where the issue is