Independent Tiling Consultant needed - TilersForums.com

[Bill]

Of the photos posted so far - where are the misaligned mosaics that would not be in a tolerance +/- with BS?

 

[Nick Jones]

Nick, I feel for you.


However, do you have some pics of the overall bathroom? (I’m sure you have!). Close up pics are fine, but we need to see the overall picture.


I think we can all agree that the quality of the finish is unacceptable. All areas of the work need a good washdown to remove excess grout and grout haze. Some areas need re-grouting. Some areas need grouting. All internal joints need siliconing.


You will need a professional tiler to visit, as the problems may not just be on the surface. Do you know how the builder fixed (stuck down) the tiles? There may be hollow voids under the tiles.


You may be lucky and get a good tiler to come in for a day and sort out these issues.


Have you paid this bloke?


p.s. I know what you mean about the mosaics. They ARE misaligned. This IS the fault of the person who stuck them to the wall.

Unfortunately I don't have pictures of the whole bathroom. My mobile phone is the one I bought in, I think, 1990 and it doesn't take photos. Amate had come round to have a look, and he kindly took the photos. And he also kindly cleared out my kitchen sink waste and the drain outside of all the grout and what-have you that the contractor put down the drain. (I have pictures of those, if anyone's interested!).
I don't know about his tie fixing, but what I do know is that several tiles are not flush with the neighbouring tiles. That suggests to me that there may be excessive adhesive under those areas, with the possibility I suppose, of voids in that the adhesive he spread with the notched float has been m0ved round by him when he applied the tile.
I have paid half his bill - that covers the trades he paid and gives him a week's pay (at his normal daily rate) for the building work of knocking down a couple of small walls and the construction of some stud walls to accomodate wall hung w.c., bidet and handbasin.
The position is rather complicated and unpleasant. He has been working for my employers for 3 + years. As the Accountant/Book-keeper I see every invoice from him - hence I know his normal daily rate, and I know how much time he has spent on the compan's work (and hardly anything in his own right). Because the company did not have any work for him for the first couple of weeks in January, and I had been waiting for such a time (to help out my employers, and this guy) so my "project" was scheduled. I actually expected him to go that little bit extra as we were work colleagues and I had known him for over 3 years. I am so disappointed. You cannot believe how appalled I feel, that my trust (yes, I say trust) has been wrecked by this individual. I say again, if I wanted a poor job, I could have done it myself - but I think my results would have been better than his.

 

[Nick Jones]

Of the photos posted so far - where are the misaligned mosaics that would not be in a tolerance +/- with BS?

They are all over the place. I see more every time I look.
You can see the difference in joint width - unfortunately I haven't got round to document properly this aspect of the poor job yet.
I thought I'd also add a couple of pics - one of the fact that he couldn't even fix a door handle vertically, and others of the grout in my waste pipes as well!

 

[One Day]

Of the photos posted so far - where are the misaligned mosaics that would not be in a tolerance +/- with BS?

I know what you're getting at Tom, but BS is quite literally BS when it comes to cases like this.

 

[Nick Jones]

I know the TTA offer such a service but having just looked at the cost you could have the room retiled for less!!

Sorry I didn't reply earlier. Like you, I was horrified at the rates - my bathroom would fall into the "up to 50M2" category at £ 980 + VAT. I am trying another route with them where they talk of a desktop report based on pictures. Per their website, I spoke with them and sent off the pictures. I'm waiting to hear back from them and I'll let you know what happens, and what the cost would be.

 

[Time's Ran Out]

Give him a snagging list!
I don’t think there is anything on view that requires an independent assessment .

 

[Nick Jones]

Give him a snagging list!
I don’t think there is anything on view that requires an independent assessment .

I'm sorry I don't agree.
Firstly, I would not employ the person who did this work to carry out remedial work. If he can't do the job well enough in the first place, what value can you place on the quality of any further work.
Secondly, he denies that there is anything wrong. He thinks he's done a good job. Any remedial work would be of the "sweep it under the carpet" variety - like an extra large amount of sealant to cover up the problems, but not to fix them.
Thirdly, the snagging list would be simple. Rip it all out and get a professional tiler in to redo it.
Who knows what problems exist under the surface, as has been suggested already.
The work is simply not good enough. Likewise, as a tiler this contractor is not good enough. If am paying for work, then it is only reasonable for me to expect quality work.

 

[Blunt Tool]

If you don’t give the original tiler a chance to rectify the work ie give him a list of all items you are not happy with then IMO you don’t stand any chance of compensation.

 

[Nick Jones]

If you don’t give the original tiler a chance to rectify the work ie give him a list of all items you are not happy with then IMO you don’t stand any chance of compensation.

I told him that I did not think that the work was up to scratch.
He did not like that.
He said "I can't be arsed" and that he'd "take what I was going to pay him and leave it at that".
My interpretation - he quit. He walked off the job. Subsequently, he appears to regret that "terminology was used out of context on my behalf due to feeling surprised at your reaction to my work. I have worked tirelessly to complete and achieve your deadline for completion". The job has not been completed. The deadline for completion was not achieved.
He wanted to come round to look at the work - I agreed.
He turned up with his mate (without having said anything about this beforehand) who he said was a tiling contractor
I had hoped that this might mean that he was going to propose that this guy did remedial work (because he was on another job at the time), but no - his mate proceeded to tell me that it was my fault because I had supplied the materials, that it was my fault because of the joint width I had specified, etc., etc., ad infinitum.
I don't know what he had intended to achieve, but when it's a 2 to 1 situation in one's own home ... and there is nothing constructive about the meeting.

 

[Dumbo]

What joint width did you specify . What was the timescale . Did he originally want longer . Ie washed he pushed or not .
I think there is more truth to come from this but don't get me wrong I'm not saying it is a good job but there may be mitigating circumstances that may affect you that we haven't heard .

 

[Nick Jones]

What joint width did you specify . What was the timescale . Did he originally want longer . Ie washed he pushed or not .
I think there is more truth to come from this but don't get me wrong I'm not saying it is a good job but there may be mitigating circumstances that may affect you that we haven't heard .

I'm sorry, but what has all this got to do with the fact that I want to get an independent and impartial report on the work.
However - as to joint width.
He originally asked me which way did I want the floor tile to run. I said that I wanted the long side of the tile (60 x 30) to run the short way in the room, to make it look bigger.
He then said that I knew that the wall tiles wouldn't match. I asked for clarification - he said that the joints on the vertical wall tiles would not match with the joints on the floor tiles. I referred him to the "visualiser" from Topps Tiles, plus several example of where the joints did match.
I told him that the joints were to match. He accepted this.
After he had laid the floor tiles, he asked me what width did I want the joints on the wall tiles.I said the same as the floor.
He showed me the spacers (5mm ?) he used on the floor, and the (4mm ?, but I don't think it was 3mm) spacer he would have used on the walls. I said that the joints had to be the same, otherwise it would not match. He accepted this without any further comment.
The wording on the grout says it is good for joints between 1mm and 20mm, and I have no doubt that there will be numerous examples of a 5mm joint on wall tiles.
And if he thought 5mm wall joints were excessive, then what about the 10mm joint he had between the edge of the mosaic and the corner of the walls.
Timescale is what he said - start on Monday 8/1/18, finish on Friday 19/1/18. I booked those 2 weeks in a B & B nearby, so that I'd be out of the way. Let me remind you - he had another job booked to start om Monday 22/1/18, so it was HIS timetable. When he had not finished my job, I had even said that he had to concentrate on this next job, not on mine, and that my job would get done. If I had a WC that worked, and I could always wash myself at the kitchen sink (because the shower area was not finished and waterproofed), so I wasn't going to pressure him - he's a work colleague and I'm not going to cause him problems and any hassle.
Frankly, I do object to the inference that I've caused the problem.
If he misforecast the time needed for the project, that is down to him.
If using a 5mm wall joint between tiles was going to cause a problem, then it should have been mentioned - although there are numerous instances where this is not a problem.
He did the work - badly.
The end result shows.
He is of the opinion that it is a good job, except I do not agree. And I think, that the general consensus is that it is not a good job.
However, could I just say that what I am after is an independent, impartial report on this work, detailing what is wrong (and if there is something right, then stating that also) and suggesting a way forward.
I have my own thoughts, obviously.

 

[Andy Allen]

What if they are paper faced sheets?

Can't remember the last time I even saw a paper faced mosaic no matter used one, they seem more confined to swimming pools, than feature walls or boarders...

 

[Dumbo]

I'm sorry, but what has all this got to do with the fact that I want to get an independent and impartial report on the work.
However - as to joint width.
He originally asked me which way did I want the floor tile to run. I said that I wanted the long side of the tile (60 x 30) to run the short way in the room, to make it look bigger.
He then said that I knew that the wall tiles wouldn't match. I asked for clarification - he said that the joints on the vertical wall tiles would not match with the joints on the floor tiles. I referred him to the "visualiser" from Topps Tiles, plus several example of where the joints did match.
I told him that the joints were to match. He accepted this.
After he had laid the floor tiles, he asked me what width did I want the joints on the wall tiles.I said the same as the floor.
He showed me the spacers (5mm ?) he used on the floor, and the (4mm ?, but I don't think it was 3mm) spacer he would have used on the walls. I said that the joints had to be the same, otherwise it would not match. He accepted this without any further comment.
The wording on the grout says it is good for joints between 1mm and 20mm, and I have no doubt that there will be numerous examples of a 5mm joint on wall tiles.
And if he thought 5mm wall joints were excessive, then what about the 10mm joint he had between the edge of the mosaic and the corner of the walls.
Timescale is what he said - start on Monday 8/1/18, finish on Friday 19/1/18. I booked those 2 weeks in a B & B nearby, so that I'd be out of the way. Let me remind you - he had another job booked to start om Monday 22/1/18, so it was HIS timetable. When he had not finished my job, I had even said that he had to concentrate on this next job, not on mine, and that my job would get done. If I had a WC that worked, and I could always wash myself at the kitchen sink (because the shower area was not finished and waterproofed), so I wasn't going to pressure him - he's a work colleague and I'm not going to cause him problems and any hassle.
Frankly, I do object to the inference that I've caused the problem.
If he misforecast the time needed for the project, that is down to him.
If using a 5mm wall joint between tiles was going to cause a problem, then it should have been mentioned - although there are numerous instances where this is not a problem.
He did the work - badly.
The end result shows.
He is of the opinion that it is a good job, except I do not agree. And I think, that the general consensus is that it is not a good job.
However, could I just say that what I am after is an independent, impartial report on this work, detailing what is wrong (and if there is something right, then stating that also) and suggesting a way forward.
I have my own thoughts, obviously.

View attachment 96680

I am not inferring anything I ask a question or two that if we had a certain answer maybe relevant . Don't think you won't be asked these questions if it goes legal .

 

[Andy Allen]

At what point do you start taking the hit for straightening out poor quality mosaics or turning around to your customer and telling them you need extra money or walking of the job .

As always it's your decision to except any materials to be used, can't see a problem adjusting the odd tesseriea on a sheet of mosaic.....

Obviously if there all over the place, don't line up or the sheets aren't square then there unusable..........but that's what makes us good tilers, being able to sort the wheat from the chaf..

 

[Blunt Tool]

What if they are paper faced sheets?

Eh, you would use normal set adhesive, wet the paper, give it time peel off and and adjust mosaic accordingly as you go along. I’ve never seen any kinda mosaic where adjustment within the sheet is not required only some that are a lot less often.