Failed anhydrite floor

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Failed anhydrite floor

Discuss Failed anhydrite floor in the Canada Tile Advice area at TilersForums.com.

I

Ian

I went to look at a floor that had failed a couple of days ago and of the 60 m2, not much of it seems to be left attached to the screed. The grout is cracking and most tiles sound hollow. It's going to be a mammoth task sorting it out as the skirtings and kitchen are all fitted ontop. Now before I delve in and start pulling the place apart, what are people's thoughts on trying a resin injection to remedy the situation, is it worth a go? It wasn't me who tiled it originally so I'm not sure exactly why it's failed, my guess would be wrong prep or wrong adhesive, I won't know until I remove a couple of tiles. The lady has only been in the house 18 months and I want to cause as little disruption as possible, I feel quite sorry for her as she is quite clearly distressed about it.
 
I

Ian

timeless john said:
The resin injection will only work if the tiles are level! If there is any uneven loose tiles they will have to be fixed first. It's a very expensive process and unless it's stone on decoupling I wouldn't think it's a cost effective option. She should try getting compensation off the previous owner!
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The tiles have stayed level with the exception of one or two particularly loose ones, the developer who built the house is paying for it to be put right so the lady won't be out of pocket, I'm just trying to come up with the least messy solution. Thanks for the information about the cost, it's not something I'd even looked into, I kind of half thought I might be able to do it myself given some guidance. I'll do it in small areas I think rather than rip everything out in one go, that should help keep the dust and mess to a minimum.
 
A

Ajax123

TF
Esteemed
Arms
931
1,213
Lincolnshire
Bri said:
I went to look at a floor that had failed a couple of days ago and of the 60 m2, not much of it seems to be left attached to the screed. The grout is cracking and most tiles sound hollow. It's going to be a mammoth task sorting it out as the skirtings and kitchen are all fitted ontop. Now before I delve in and start pulling the place apart, what are people's thoughts on trying a resin injection to remedy the situation, is it worth a go? It wasn't me who tiled it originally so I'm not sure exactly why it's failed, my guess would be wrong prep or wrong adhesive, I won't know until I remove a couple of tiles. The lady has only been in the house 18 months and I want to cause as little disruption as possible, I feel quite sorry for her as she is quite clearly distressed about it.
Click to expand...

It would depend why it has failed. Is it damp, poor prep, primer failure etc. if it is simply a case of poor prep it it is well worth a try to ropes in inject. You will probably have to regroup afterwards but I suspect that would be cheaper and easier than a complete rip out. My suggestion would be to get some resin (I think mapei do one and possibly Bostik) and try it on a small area before launching yourself at the whole thing. I would be very interested to know if it achieves a fix. I suspect it will as it has been done in Germany and America for several years. I know of a couple of jobs in the uk where it has been done successfully.

Not sure if the epoxy system would work on a damp screed. There are quite few DIY vids on YouTube for resin injection repairs to hollow spots.
 
I

Ian

Stef said:
Bri, you could be opening up a can of worms m8.
You say you want to keep the mess down but what if the screeds not been sanded?
I wouldn't like to sand 60m2 with a kitchen & skirtings fitted.
Just a thought..
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I'll bet it probably hasn't been sanded, I know that it's a rip out and redo. I'll just have to do it in room sized areas with some super duper vacuum equipment. She doesn't want any disruption this side of Christmas, I'll probably suggest going on holiday for a couple of weeks in Feb/March.
 
I

Ian

Ajax123 said:
It would depend why it has failed. Is it damp, poor prep, primer failure etc. if it is simply a case of poor prep it it is well worth a try to ropes in inject. You will probably have to regroup afterwards but I suspect that would be cheaper and easier than a complete rip out. My suggestion would be to get some resin (I think mapei do one and possibly Bostik) and try it on a small area before launching yourself at the whole thing. I would be very interested to know if it achieves a fix. I suspect it will as it has been done in Germany and America for several years. I know of a couple of jobs in the uk where it has been done successfully.

Not sure if the epoxy system would work on a damp screed. There are quite few DIY vids on YouTube for resin injection repairs to hollow spots.
Click to expand...

I think I'll remove a few tiles in different areas just to see why it's failed. The utility room is only 2 m2 or so, so that would be a good test area. Most of the grout is loose so getting the resin in won't be difficult, I'll look into it further and report back.
 
A

Ajax123

TF
Esteemed
Arms
931
1,213
Lincolnshire
Bri said:
I'll bet it probably hasn't been sanded, I know that it's a rip out and redo. I'll just have to do it in room sized areas with some super duper vacuum equipment. She doesn't want any disruption this side of Christmas, I'll probably suggest going on holiday for a couple of weeks in Feb/March.
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Lack of sanding would not mean a rip out and redo if the resin is such that it impregnates the top of the screed as it would replace the epoxy. Bit like sticking your tiles back down with araldite..

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Bri said:
Its a couple of miles outside of Grantham Alan, Barkston if you have heard of it. Thanks for the offer, I'll definitely take you up on that when I come to do the job.
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Pyres I know barks ton. Only live down the a1 in Stamford myself so reasonably local.
 
I

Ian

Ajax123 said:
Lack of sanding would not mean a rip out and redo if the resin is such that it impregnates the top of the screed as it would replace the epoxy. Bit like sticking your tiles back down with araldite..

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Pyres I know barks ton. Only live down the a1 in Stamford myself so reasonably local.
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I have spoken to the developer and he assures me that the floor was sanded but, it might not have been dry. He doesn't know what adhesive/primer was used. I'll need to investigate a little further before I choose a plan of action.
 
T

The Legend; Phil Hobson RIP

Hi Bri, I have been on and off a 150m2 floor ( not laid by me) Alan ( Ajax) may remember giving me advice on this one, Anhydrite screed not abraded, not primed, screed not dry when floor was laid.

I have been on and off this job for a few months, ripping up sections cleaning up tiles prep floor etc. Not good for the client, not good for the industry.

Lack of knowledge and research by fixers. We need to ask the questions, and then get advice from people like Ajax who have the answers.
 
L

Lee@emctiles

TF
309
528
Derby
Bri said:
I went to look at a floor that had failed a couple of days ago and of the 60 m2, not much of it seems to be left attached to the screed. The grout is cracking and most tiles sound hollow. It's going to be a mammoth task sorting it out as the skirtings and kitchen are all fitted ontop. Now before I delve in and start pulling the place apart, what are people's thoughts on trying a resin injection to remedy the situation, is it worth a go? It wasn't me who tiled it originally so I'm not sure exactly why it's failed, my guess would be wrong prep or wrong adhesive, I won't know until I remove a couple of tiles. The lady has only been in the house 18 months and I want to cause as little disruption as possible, I feel quite sorry for her as she is quite clearly distressed about it.
Click to expand...

Had a Thursday morning panic there for a minute until i read the whole thread!
 
John Benton

John Benton

TF
Arms
2,211
1,138
Leeds
Another floor failure

Was collared by a neighbour round the corner from the house where I'm working. Went to have a look at the floor in question.

The information I have so far is this:-

Anhydrite floor pumped over UFH.
Floor sanded.
Screed contractor leaves 'green' primer with builder.
UFH was not commissioned and not sure if a moisture test was done
1 mist coat applied 3 or 4 to 1 according to customer.
1 neat coat applied.
Floor tiles approx 70m, 60x60 polished porcelain fixed with cement addy 2mm joint (Not sure what manufacturer, BAL SPF found in garage but that was used in bathroom apparently)

After a few weeks the grout started cracking and tiles flexing.
Some tiles have been lifted and replaced (badly). They came up in one piece just with a chisel under one edge.
Contractor said it was an expansion problem so they raked out the grout and filled with silicon. This did not sort the problem.
They have done a moisture test but customer has not heard back yet.

Today I have looked at the floor and I would say that 50-60% of the tiles have a hollow sound when tapped.

Below are the pictures of the tiles that were loose and removed.

You can see that the tiles were not back buttered but this clearly is not the cause of the failure.

It looks like the primer has de-bonded from the floor but if anyone can throw anything else at this I would appreciate it. I have given the customer the good news i.e. the floor probably won't take long to remove, but I think he is prepared for it all to come up. Kitchen and skirtings are all installed on top as well.

Tile1.jpg Tile2.jpg
 
Chalker

Chalker

TF
Arms
628
1,058
Tadcaster
A feweople seem to be having problems with the green primer not adhering to substrate.

i personally have never tiled onto this type of floor but I fit a lot of underfloor heating for a builder with this type of screed. The liquid screed used is a dull finish when dry (no shiny finish like some).
this tiler has no probs with it. He makes sure its been tested and is dry , uses Dunlop adhesive ( not sure which one), vacuums the floor, NO primer, then just wets the floor with a sponge before adhesive.

i have worked for this builder and tiler for many years and to date have never seen one of his jobs fail.
 
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