Conservatory and Kitchen Floor Marble Tiles - Tile Advice

[Alzak]

Hi All,


I’m getting all bits required to tile floor in my kitchen and conservatory, 1st I have had idea to buy some quartz tiles but after reading this forum I know quartz for conservatory is a no go … now I settled on marble tiles and my question is do I need any special prep for this tiles and mentioned areas of use ?

 

[J Sid]

what's the substrate?
any ufh?

 

[Alzak]

Sub is concrete and i was advised against ufh in conservatory...

I'm thinking about getting pro for tiling but as i have no idea whats right or wrong i want to make sure all prep is as it should be done ...

So any tips would be appreciated...

Tiles for kitchen and conservatory would probably be 100% marble or engineered marble if those are any good ?

I got another project which to be honest would be compleated first which is bathroom where i want cappuccino marble and some mosaic marble tiles, not sure how this would need to be prepped on plastered walls and wooden slab floor ?

Many thanks for all help.

 

[Old Mod]

If you're spending this much money on materials, for heaven sake, make sure whoever you bring in, knows exactly what they're doing.
Or it WILL end in tears.

 

[Alzak]

Yeah thats why i need your help as i have no idea what sort of prep work i should see... If preparation would be as expected then i hope fitter would know their job.

 

[Old Mod]

As far as walls go, you need to find out the kg's per square meter of your chosen material.
A plastered wall can only withstand, 20kgm2 which when it comes to marble, will depend on its thickness.
Plaster is gypsum based, adhesive is cement based, they DO NOT mix.
Gypsum/plaster must be primed well to avoid a failure.
Timber floors must be secure and bounce free.
Are you having under floor heating?
Timber is about the worst substrate to tile to, it susceptible to moisture and heat and cold.
So effectively your timber floor will expand and contract with any rise and fall in temperature, and any moisture ingress, be it large or small amounts of water. Yes, even marine ply.
Ideally it would be overboarded with an inert material, like insulation tile backer board or a cement board. Then to increase your chances of a successful install, use an antifracture matting or decoupler. This will form a barrier between your marble floor and your substrate. Then if any movement (reasonable) occurs beneath, your marble floor will stay in tact.
If there's no room for all these extra layers, ditch the board, and use the antifracture matting.

 

[Flintstone]

Why not post up where your located and maybe there's a decent tiler on here who can come and do the job right

 

[Alzak]

As far as walls go, you need to find out the kg's per square meter of your chosen material.
A plastered wall can only withstand, 20kgm2 which when it comes to marble, will depend on its thickness.
Plaster is gypsum based, adhesive is cement based, they DO NOT mix.
Gypsum/plaster must be primed well to avoid a failure.
Timber floors must be secure and bounce free.
Are you having under floor heating?
Timber is about the worst substrate to tile to, it susceptible to moisture and heat and cold.
So effectively your timber floor will expand and contract with any rise and fall in temperature, and any moisture ingress, be it large or small amounts of water. Yes, even marine ply.
Ideally it would be overboarded with an inert material, like insulation tile backer board or a cement board. Then to increase your chances of a successful install, use an antifracture matting or decoupler. This will form a barrier between your marble floor and your substrate. Then if any movement (reasonable) occurs beneath, your marble floor will stay in tact.
If there's no room for all these extra layers, ditch the board, and use the antifracture matting.

That was the sort of answer i was after, now i know more or less what to look for and if at any stage something i see is not done right i would raise questions and if my suspicion about job not being done right would be prooven i simply ask tiler to leave ...

What sort of primer would you get for plaster walls ? And with regards to antifracture matting which one is the one to go for ?

With regards to adhesive i would insist on getting mapei keraquick mixed with latex plus, grouts also with mapei ultracolour or BAL micromax.

So far i know you should also seal before grouting, walls with 2mm spacimg and floor 3mm.

Tiles i would probably go for are 457x305 12mm cappuccino in bathroom mixed with 23x23 mosaic on bath side and as feature.

And conservatory with kitchen light emprador engineered marble (not sure on this one yet tho...)

 

[Old Mod]

That was the sort of answer i was after, now i know more or less what to look for and if at any stage something i see is not done right i would raise questions and if my suspicion about job not being done right would be prooven i simply ask tiler to leave ...

What sort of primer would you get for plaster walls ? And with regards to antifracture matting which one is the one to go for ?

With regards to adhesive i would insist on getting mapei keraquick mixed with latex plus, grouts also with mapei ultracolour or BAL micromax.

So far i know you should also seal before grouting, walls with 2mm spacimg and floor 3mm.

Tiles i would probably go for are 457x305 12mm cappuccino in bathroom mixed with 23x23 mosaic on bath side and as feature.

And conservatory with kitchen light emprador engineered marble (not sure on this one yet tho...)

Well rather than waiting to see the methods used by a fixer, would it not be better for you to ask him to prepare a detailed method statement?
As far as your marble is concerned, a 12mm marble will weigh approx 30kgm2 plus adhesive and grout will total approx 35kgm2, far too heavy for a plastered wall. Some kind of tile backer board would be required, this must be mechanically fixed to the existing primed wall.
Boards should be glued and screwed to the wall, following manufacturers recommendations.
Most backer boards do not need priming before fixing, just a wipe down with a damp cloth to remove any dust residue.
Any wet areas i.e. Shower would ideally be tanked too, more so with a natural product, as these can absorb moisture to an extent.
Be observant when choosing backer boards, some are uneffected by moisture (NOT WATERPROOF) and others ARE waterproof when installed correctly.
A primer suitable for tiling would either be acrylic or sbr based and definitely NOT pva!
Anti fracture mats come in two forms, anything from Ditra 25, (approx 5mm) which can serve several purposes.
Laid with tapes jointed this will form a waterproof barrier and a decoupling mechanism.
Or something like Tilemaster's anti fracture mat is 1mm thick and is purely an anti fracture mat.
Both are excellent products.
Again height issues may come in to play.

 

[Alzak]

Yeah my tiler mentioned two walls would need to be over boarded as those walls are plaster partition boards and other two are outside facing (bathroom is located in corner of our house)

I would get some liquid waterproofing done just in case even I get bath fitted but I would feel much better knowing some waterproofing is installed.

What are people views on engineered tiles like :

Spanish Light Emperador Marble - Natural Stone | Tilesporcelain - http://www.tilesporcelain.co.uk/marble-tiles/mb44-light-emperador-marble-wall-floor-tile

I would like this to be installed in kitchen and conservatory together something around 26m2 not sure if getting UFH in conservatory would be good idea ? as I was advised against one due to not being very effective in conservatories with perspex roof.

 

[Old Mod]

If the tiler you're thinking of using is competent enough to realise the weight issues surrounding substrates, there's a fair chance he knows what he's doing. Weight limits are one of the lesser known areas of our industry.
As far as your tile choice for downstairs is concerned, personally I don't know the product, and so far in to the thread as we are, you are reducing the chances of someone who does, seeing your choice. If a thread holds no interest to someone, they tend to stop revisiting quickly.
Maybe start a fresh thread concerned only with the tile choice, but it's not guaranteed you'll find someone who knows it.
As a very general rule of thumb, if the manufacturers guidelines fit your requirement and they are installed correctly, then they should be ok.
But we all understand the concept, 'you get what you pay for!'
Ultimately the choice is yours.

 

[DavidP-TUFHS]

Firstly excellent advice throughout given by 3_fall.

Secondly to drop my 2p in regarding the underfloor heating - a 200w per sqm system is ideal for heating conservatories and other high heat loss areas so this is a definite viable option for you if you want the floor heated. There is also nothing stopping you going through with the same system into the kitchen.The only time I would say underfloor heating is a bad idea would be in the situation of Quartz as it has a known tendency to curl or tent with heat.

As it will be natural stone on the top I personally and many others on here would advise that the floorfinish be decoupled from the UFH (should you choose to install it) to prevent any potential issues with thermal expansion and contraction.

 

[J Sid]

good advice from both above.

200w ufh would be fine. I would probably not uncouple if the stone is good quality, would need to see it. Make sure of an expansion joint around perimeter

 

[Fraser Tiling]

Just posted in the forum arms about a 457x305 8mm white marble tile supplied by tops. Waiting for a reply about my reservations about it.
Hope you dont share the same problem with your tiles.