adhesive failure on resin backed stone

[jonnyc]

Has anyone had a problem that i have encountered recently where a limestone floor was laid using a flexible thickbed white adhesive.
Adhesive was spead over back of tiles before solid bedding stone in extra adhesive and there was full coverage underneath.
A number of months later the floor tiles became totally debonded from adhesive but stuck to subfloor with no problems.
Stone federation came to look and said it was fixed correctly and wrote a report to say so.
Adhesive manufacturer then said their adhesive was not suitable to fix to resin backed tiles.
This resin backing is quite common with some limestones but they do not want to take any responsibilty.You would think they might say on their bags that you cannot use adhesive with background like this.
has anyone had similar instances and if so have they had any luck in getting adhesive manufacturers to take some blame.

 

[DHTiling]

I haven't come across a resin backed stone yet jonny...

what adhesive was it...as in who's..

 

[Gazzer]

Has anyone had a problem that i have encountered recently where a limestone floor was laid using a flexible thickbed white adhesive.
Adhesive was spead over back of tiles before solid bedding stone in extra adhesive and there was full coverage underneath.
A number of months later the floor tiles became totally debonded from adhesive but stuck to subfloor with no problems.
Stone federation came to look and said it was fixed correctly and wrote a report to say so.
Adhesive manufacturer then said their adhesive was not suitable to fix to resin backed tiles.
This resin backing is quite common with some limestones but they do not want to take any responsibilty.You would think they might say on their bags that you cannot use adhesive with background like this.
has anyone had similar instances and if so have they had any luck in getting adhesive manufacturers to take some blame.

 

[Spud]

jonny means the firbre glass reinforcement webbing on the back of some of the 20mm marble slabs ,I have seen this happen alot Jonny ,i always try to put a dash af flexi liquid in when using this type of stone and will also score the back with a grinder when ever possible.
The addy manufacturers never ever take responsibility and often alter their products as and when by either changing thier cement for the cheapest suppliers or changing the quarries they get their sand from and even reducing the amounts of modifiers down the the very bare minimum to save money ,summer mix and winter mix, yeah right

 

[jonnyc]

gary

you are right, it is the fibre glass reinforcement .The stone was from israel or nearabouts and they do this quite often to hold it together.
The adhesive was a flexible thickbed one which has never failed before on other stones.

 

[Deleted member 18697]

Jonnyc is a friend of mine and the job he is talking about is mine. The adhesive was Weber Stone Set Thick Bed. Pretty well the whole floor has become debonded. I have a report from a highly qualified independent expert in this field concluding that the blame lies with the adhesive company. Has anyone had any luck pursuing Weber in a similar case?

 

[DHTiling]

That is a new adhesive from them isn't it..?

 

[kilty55]

i used 30mm thick trav on a set of steps that had this backing and was advised by the supplier to score the web 1st,,is this the correct way guys?

 

[jonnyc]

dave
its been around for quite a few years now but their products are a bit confusing sometimes as they they have two ranges of adhesives.
This stonset thickbed is exactly the same as a thick bed in their normal range.
To be honest I think it is a good adhesive except in this case and widely used by some big stone companies and i only changed a few years back beacause i found another adhesive that was equally as good but much cheaper.
I am really disapointed in their attitude and wish i had not recommended them to many of my tiling friends now.

 

[DHTiling]

Cheers jonny.. i know some new names have been launched but not one i have used..

I have used the weber set plus and some new stone one from webber last year but that is it...so i can't comment on the quality of the one you used ...

what have webber said..? and did they take any samples to test.?

 

[tfs]

i used 30mm thick trav on a set of steps that had this backing and was advised by the supplier to score the web 1st,,is this the correct way guys?

I think that advice was probably correct mate as you should get a better beond to the actual tile.

to the best of my knowledge this backing is commonly found on cheaper thinner tiles but is also used on tiles that are at risk of breaking due to other weaknesses such as veins etc.

 

[Jelthetiler]

Back in the summer i had a grout go 'light' on me overnight. My punter rang me and said he wasn't happy but i persauded him to wait a few more days. In the end, his 60x60 black polished porce' fllor looked like the dancefloor from the 'Billy Jean MJ video'. The dark greygrout had almost gone white. I managed to get the company area manager to come round, dug down in several places and got him to agree with us. The consensus was that the grout was bagged wrong in the factory.
A deal was worked out between us all without money changing hands/liability accepted, but you can get the BIGGEST companies to sort you out if you prove they mess up!!

Jel

 

[TrumpersUnited]

Is it a 2 part adhesive?

I always use a 2 part adhesive on resin backed stone as moisture from a SPF can twist away from the resin.

 

[TrumpersUnited]

Also on some resin backed stone you may have to grind the back of the stone as one of mates has done at a job in London. Which is a right pain the backside.

 

[Spud]

Back in the summer i had a grout go 'light' on me overnight. My punter rang me and said he wasn't happy but i persauded him to wait a few more days. In the end, his 60x60 black polished porce' fllor looked like the dancefloor from the 'Billy Jean MJ video'. The dark greygrout had almost gone white. I managed to get the company area manager to come round, dug down in several places and got him to agree with us. The consensus was that the grout was bagged wrong in the factory.
A deal was worked out between us all without money changing hands/liability accepted, but you can get the BIGGEST companies to sort you out if you prove they mess up!!

Jel

which brand Jel

 

[Stephen@Weber]

One of the reason's they put resin on the back of the tiles is to offer a weight saving so you can fix stone onto plasterboard etc, however I've had a phone round to some of the technical lines that adhesive companies offer and they're not very happy to guarantee their products with these tiles.

Ardex didn't like them at all, if I was you I'd be very careful as to how you fix any resin backed tiles, I saw some that were only 4mm thick.