Grout problem in shower area

[Jon B]

Hi hope someone can help. I have quite a few years of tiling experience but never had this problem before. Fortunately the job was in our own house and we have another shower so there is no irate customer but my wife.
3 weeks ago I completed a fully tiled ensuite including a shower area. The tiles are 600x300 porcelain, the adhesive was Topps bagged slow-set adhesive. I grouted with BAL bagged Micromax. The grout was opened in november for another job and had been kept in dry conditions. After a week we used the shower for the first time (it was used twice for I suppose 10 mins total) and found grout dust in the tray. On closer inspection I could see the surface of the lower grout lines was soft and bits had washed off. So I raked out the affected grout lines, re-grouted with the same product but from a new bag and this time left it for 2 weeks as per the manufacturer's guidelines. Just used the shower this morning and we have the same problem on grout lines grouted with the older grout 3 weeks ago and with the newer grout 2 weeks ago. If I run my finger along the grout lines, it is as if it were only grouted yesterday, the surface is soft and can be smeared, even out of the direct shower area where the grout is wet from spray and condensation. My fear is that I will have to rake it all out in the shower area and redo with a new bag. I have used this grout many times before and never had this problem. Any ideas?

 

[Flintstone]

Get some more grout and re grout the shower area ?

 

[GoneGuy]

Maybe use a different brand

 

[J Sid]

call Bal help line and see what they say 01782 591120

 

[Dumbo]

Had similar problem with kitchen floor . Redone in mapei ucp no problem

 

[Jon B]

Thanks for the replies, looks like there is a consensus that I will need to redo. I will call technical in the morning. However there is 20 sqm. If I use a different make, surely that means re-grouting it all. The toilet, vanity unit etc will all have to come out. Then there is the risk of chipping edges, the mess and dust. Cannot believe this is happening, perhaps I have been using a bad batch.

 

[J Sid]

speak to Bal tomorrow, maybe a batch problem and their goods have a guarantee so many get a result out of them.
what did Bal say to you @jcrtiling ?

 

[Jon B]

Thanks I will call them tomorrow. But what will they do at best, refund the bag? It'll take work over 3 days to take everything out, chase the grout, re-grout, clean and put everything back. That's a complete nightmare!

 

[J Sid]

you never know, tell them what's happened, batch number or when a where you bought them, maybe old stock from shop. if so shop will need to put it all right. Have you still got bags ? give Bal a chance to do a site visit.
tell them you've been on here telling us about your problems
Report back with the out come

 

[Jon B]

Will do, thanks!

 

[Tile seller]

Was the grout 'out of date' or,perhaps stored in near freezing temperatures ?

 

[Dumbo]

speak to Bal tomorrow, maybe a batch problem and their goods have a guarantee so many get a result out of them.
what did Bal say to you @jcrtiling ?

Nothing because their guarantee stinks and will make up any old codswallop to get out of any liability .

 

[Jon B]

The grout was bought last summer with a date of this coming June so in date. It has been stored in my house since november.

 

[Jon B]

I have registered the issue with BAL and Topps as per their procedure and I am waiting for an appointment for technicians from both to visit together. Apparently they will do test samples and they will test the batch number of samples they hold. I will be very surprised if either agree responsibility and this will probably waste more time but if I do not try, I'll never know. The thought of having to rake our 20 sqm of grout without damaging the tiles is a nightmare.

 

[Dumbo]

I have registered the issue with BAL and Topps as per their procedure and I am waiting for an appointment for technicians from both to visit together. Apparently they will do test samples and they will test the batch number of samples they hold. I will be very surprised if either agree responsibility and this will probably waste more time but if I do not try, I'll never know. The thought of having to rake our 20 sqm of grout without damaging the tiles is a nightmare.

Good luck . Let us all know how it plays out .

 

[Dumbo]

Just thinking does anybody know of a laboratory where tilers could send samples for test as we only rely on what we are being told by manufacturers that there is nothing wrong with their product .

 

[J Sid]

I have registered the issue with BAL and Topps as per their procedure and I am waiting for an appointment for technicians from both to visit together. Apparently they will do test samples and they will test the batch number of samples they hold. I will be very surprised if either agree responsibility and this will probably waste more time but if I do not try, I'll never know. The thought of having to rake our 20 sqm of grout without damaging the tiles is a nightmare.

if it was me I'd post on twitter a few pick and a brief description and that you eagerly await a visit and tag both topps and Bal in.
keep them on the ball

 

[Dumbo]

if it was me I'd post on twitter a few pick and a brief description and that you eagerly await a visit and tag both topps and Bal in.
keep them on the ball

I new their was a reason I should use my twitter account

 

[Jon B]

Slight change, I have a manager from Topps visiting in the morning to take photos and samples for BAL. Apparently BAL told him that mixing the grout too dry can cause grout not to dry properly. I have been mixing grout for nearly 20 years on 3 or 4 bathrooms a year and I cannot think I ever mixed grout "too dry", it is always a creamy paste thick enough not to drip off a grout spreader, always by hand, enough to do about 2m square a time and I never add water after the initial mix. We will see in the morning.

 

[Dumbo]

Slight change, I have a manager from Topps visiting in the morning to take photos and samples for BAL. Apparently BAL told him that mixing the grout too dry can cause grout not to dry properly. I have been mixing grout for nearly 20 years on 3 or 4 bathrooms a year and I cannot think I ever mixed grout "too dry", it is always a creamy paste thick enough not to drip off a grout spreader, always by hand, enough to do about 2m square a time and I never add water after the initial mix. We will see in the morning.

As I have stated on this forum before .
Too wet ,too dry , too hot ,too cold, insert as appropriate. Plus you can't prove any different

 

[Jon B]

We need that laboratory!

 

[Italy]

sorry, you have not yet told the width of the grouting.

 

[Jon B]

2mm

 

[Italy]

in any case, them already know about the problem.
if the problem is the grout ..

 

[Time's Ran Out]

What colour grout?
You should only have to regrout the shower. The rest doesn't get wet.

 

[Jon B]

manila

 

[Jon B]

Topps have taken photos and samples for BAL. I am expecting a call from BAL for their own visit. The implication of what I am hearing so far is that I have not followed the manufacturer instructions for mixing: "Slowly add approximately 5 parts powder to 1 part clean cold water by weight". Am I being told I should weigh it out? I have been mixing for years and surely the texture you want to achieve becomes second nature. They are saying Micromax must be mixed in that particular ratio. I will wait to hear the test results and what the local BAL technician has to say. But I feel I am wasting my time and should just get on with weighing out my new mix for re-grouting!

 

[Dumbo]

Topps have taken photos and samples for BAL. I am expecting a call from BAL for their own visit. The implication of what I am hearing so far is that I have not followed the manufacturer instructions for mixing: "Slowly add approximately 5 parts powder to 1 part clean cold water by weight". Am I being told I should weigh it out? I have been mixing for years and surely the texture you want to achieve becomes second nature. They are saying Micromax must be mixed in that particular ratio. I will wait to hear the test results and what the local BAL technician has to say. But I feel I am wasting my time and should just get on with weighing out my new mix for re-grouting!

Maybe you should weigh and see if you get same prob

 

[Jon B]

Good idea! Yesterday BAL told me to mix a small amount on to a scrap tile which I did. This morning when Topps visited, the grout softened when made wet just like the grout lines.
So I pinched the wife's scales, put on a small mixing bowl and set the scales to 0. I added 4 grams cold water, then grout to take it up to 24 grams so 4 grams water 20 grams grout 5:1 ratio. I have put the mix thinly next to the first sample. It will be interesting to see what it is like tomorrow.
Does anybody mix grout this accurately?

 

[Italy]

Good idea! Yesterday BAL told me to mix a small amount on to a scrap tile which I did. This morning when Topps visited, the grout softened when made wet just like the grout lines.
So I pinched the wife's scales, put on a small mixing bowl and set the scales to 0. I added 4 grams cold water, then grout to take it up to 24 grams so 4 grams water 20 grams grout 5:1 ratio. I have put the mix thinly next to the first sample. It will be interesting to see what it is like tomorrow.
Does anybody mix grout this accurately?

jon hey, do not go into paranoia, you did nothing wrong, from what I understand.
I've always done grouting, as I like it, hard or liquid. only changes the color.
whether they indemnify, okay.
or, the negative publicity has already been made here.