Tiling on the ceiling.

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Tiling on the ceiling.

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G

Gracer

My latest project is a bit of a doozy, and has put up a challenge for me I haven't had to deal with before.
I have to fix around 40 limestone tiles measureing 600mm x300mm x 11mm thick to the ceiling of the entry.
I'm at a loss as to how to go about this. Has anyone been there before? Or have any tips? My worry is that they will be too heavy for the adhesive to hold them in place until it goes off and, gravity being gravity......well it could get ugly.
The ceiling tiles will also be alligned with wall tiles.
 
G

Gracer

div said:
is there a room above wer u plan 2 tile ceiling....would luv 2 c photos off tthis mate..all my years off t.f. never had or would even attempt this esp.with those size off tiles best off on this one...p.s. how much is ur liabilty ins..better get it updated lol...as for client asked me i woul WALK..:dizzy2::dizzy2:
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Yeah, a room is above, but the floor is about 12 inches of concrete.Will definately be taking photos of this job....it's huge.Which rules out walking it's worth about $50000 & around three months work, can't knock that back in this economic climate...esp. as the builder has another large job leading on after this one. Liability ins. is all good, and touch wood won't be needed.

The architect says he's had it done before & is going to check on proceedure etc.Just thought I'd pose the question here...do my own research so to speak.
I am thinking that stone masons use some special type of pegs or somesuch to hold up large slabs of stone in certain cases...maybe something like that might work?

I had to tile 200 x 200 ceramics on a shower ceiling once...piece of **** that one,mastic was enough to hold them up.
 
L

Leatherface

You can buy a product called lightweight stone, you can buy them in virtually every kind of stone and in any finish. It is a veneered product and weighs 75% less than a 20mm thickness stone of the same size.
Check out the link, the supplier is in London..........
Lightweight stone - refurbishment, natural stone, lightweight stone, composite stone panels, honeycomb panels, fibre backed stone, thin natural stone, veneered stone, veneered stone panels, veneered honeycomb panels

Don't know if there is something similar in Australia, may be worth checking out.

Also remember someone on forum saying that there is a way of fixing stone to a ceiling but is a very specialist job,
This is a quote from a guy called Mick the tiler on the subject, this is from another thread called "Tiling the ceiling in a shower"
.....

"Re: Tiling the ceiling in a shower
permalink
Putting thick marble tiles onto a ceiling can be done, but require you to screw plywood onto the ceiling at 100mm centres then this is covered in hardie backer glued and screwed NOT PLASTERBOARD. The heavier the tile then they will need some sort of fail safe safety wire epoxied to the back of the marble this wire in turn needs to be drilled up through the ceiling sheets then fixed with screws from the top or inside the ceiling. This type of work is very specialized and SHOULD NOT be attempted by someone who has little or no experience in this type of work.

If you feel you would like a tiled ceiling why not do it in mosaics tiled onto hardie backer NOT PLASTERBOARD? Less weight equals less risk."
 
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G

Gracer

deanotile said:
I had to tile 200 x 200 ceramics on a shower ceiling once...piece of **** that one,mastic was enough to hold them up.



I can’t believe what you have just said that is just sad.
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Ummmmm Why exactly.? Was done 8 years ago....they are still there. It was once explained to me that the mastic products here(for some reason) are superior to those in the UK & US. So not a problem.
Just to give you a background I finished my apprenticeship here in 1987....so have vast experience, in all aspects commercial, domestic,stone,ceramic,glass,porcelain etc,etc.. I have just come up against a job which is new & challenging to me & am seeking anyone else with a similar experience, for tips. Not ooohhhh I wouldn't do that if I were you....Didn't stop any ancient civilizations so why should it stop modern man? And as for the client....well he's a civil engineer, so he knows the score. Just need to know proceedure.
 
O

oogabooga

Gareth, I was thinking the same thing:lol:. Gracer, one method is to back butter the tile, then apply a thin bead of adhesive right around the perimeter of the tile, the push the tile upwards until you hear it make a wooshing sound (it could sound rather rude) - in effect you've created a suction cup out of tile and adhesive. If it don't fall down it must be stuck alright.:whistling:
I've never tried it myself, but I'd wear a hard hat anyway
 
L

Leatherface

Check out this link mate, the guy is in USA, has a contact phone number, his gallery shows some photos of ceilings he has tiled in natural stone.Perhaps you could call him and get a contact e-mail address for advice
Ceramic & Stone Tile Shower & Steam Room Repairs, Installations & Remodels in Greater Cleveland, Ohio and all Northeast Ohio communities including: Cleveland Heights, Akron, Aurora, Bay Village, Beachwood, Bedford, Berea, Brecksville, Broadview Heigh

I would not like to offer advice as to the best way to do it safely as I really do not know. I would guess that the ceiling and fixings would have be strong enough to take the weight of the tiles. I would expect that the correct adhesive would hold the tiles onto the substrate ok when set.
 
G

grumpygrouter

Gracer said:
I like your way of thinking Oogabooga:yes: Don't reckon it'd work for these though, too heavy.

Cheers for the link Leatherface, Neither I or any of my colleagues know how to go about it either and we have a collective experience of well over a hundred years :dizzy2:
Gonna have to see what the architect comes up with I guess.
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Give our Aussie forum mod Mick the Tiler a PM. He seems to know everything about tiling, he may be able to help.
 
F

faithhealer

Gracer said:
My latest project is a bit of a doozy, and has put up a challenge for me I haven't had to deal with before.
I have to fix around 40 limestone tiles measureing 600mm x300mm x 11mm thick to the ceiling of the entry.
I'm at a loss as to how to go about this. Has anyone been there before? Or have any tips? My worry is that they will be too heavy for the adhesive to hold them in place until it goes off and, gravity being gravity......well it could get ugly.
The ceiling tiles will also be alligned with wall tiles.
Click to expand...
A big NO
 
C

cornish_crofter

Thinking laterally, one way of doing this may be to tile the 'ceiling' before it goes up!

1) Divide suitablly reinforced tileboard into small enough sections, so it will be safe to handle when fully loaded with tiles. Ideally these should be cut to accomodate whole tiles, so that the grout lines will run in line with the joints in the final ceiling.

2) Secure battens/brackets that will allow the board to be securely lifted and fixed in place from above when fully tiled. Corresponding brackets should be installed in sutably stressed joists.

3) Turn tile boards over and tile, do not grout at this stage. Allow adhesive to fully go off.

4) Offer up tiled assemblies into place, glueing/fastening each one to the neigbouring pieces. This is where you need to ensure that each piece is firmly fixed to the ones around it.

5) Grout

Job done?

If you have an issue with lining up grout lines with the walls, I would do the walls and floor last.
 
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D

DHTiling

Hi gracer.....as long as correct prep and materials are used it can bo done in certain exceptions...like concrete ceilings etc and cement boarded area's and mechanical fixing...

Mosaics are the ideal choice but larger tiles can be used....it's not a common practice in the uk but the likes of the usa/canada etc do this type of tile fixing day in day out...

A lot of fixers in the uk will never come across that type of work...i haven't and have steered clear of it as mentioned by others ...

But if you pm Rob Z he does this type of tiling a lot....

click HERE to pm Rob

And good luck..
 
H

Highlander

cornish_crofter said:
But won't mechanical fixings be visible?
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The fixings I am on about dont show throught the tile they are drilled in a few mill and then resin bonded. Then the tile is resin bonded to the substrate. I have fixed Marble tiles to a ceiling before using rapid set and straps to support the tiles until fully dried. That was 6 years back and they still are there. It is all about prep and if the substrate has the ability to take the dead weight.

Gary
 
R

Rob Z

Hi Gracer,

Do you have access to Laticrete products? If so, they have two products that will work and are designed for this type of installation. I'm assuming that the product names/numbers are the same worldwide, but I don't know that for sure.

We have used both of these to install large and heavy tiles on ceilings. Someone mentioned earlier in the thread about the technique of making a ring of thinset around the edge of the tile and pushing it into place so that the air is pushed out and the adhesive makes full contact. That method does work well if you do it 100% correctly. If the slightest amount of void is left in that ring of material, then the tile will possibly break free and come down.

These two products will work for you:

Laticrete 255 thinset mortar

http://www.laticrete.com/Portals/0/datasheets/lds2550.pdf


Laticrete 310 epoxy adhesive

Slow set version:

http://www.laticrete.com/Portals/0/datasheets/lds6790.pdf

Rapid set version:

http://www.laticrete.com/Portals/0/datasheets/lds6793.pdf

This is the mixer for use with the cartridges:

http://www.laticrete.com/Portals/0/datasheets/lds6830.pdf

Laticrete also sells the 310 epoxy is containers with material that can be mixed by hand with a margin trowel or mixing paddle.


Both products assume a ceiling that is framed appropriately to support the weight, as well as a cement board or mortar bed substrate. Let me look for some links at the Laticrete site .....
 
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R

Rob Z

I have some photos to share of large stuff we have installed on ceilings, but most are on CD's and the driver thing on my computer isn't letting me access them right now. :incazzato:

I do have a few on the hard drive, and they show a ceiling of a steam shower we did last year. This tile is smaller than the tile that Gracer mentioned, but they were very thick and heavy and installed on a slope with the products I mentioned above. A lot of the tile setters at the John Bridge Forum have talked about using struts and other tricks to hold tiles up, but fortunately this Laticrete stuff does the trick and I haven't used any other methods to put tile on ceilings.
 
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