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Discuss Would you consider this quality work? in the Tiling Forum area at TilersForums.co.uk.

  1. Toni

    Toni New to TilersForums.co.uk

    Location:
    birmingham
    Hi all,

    I'm hoping you can give me an opinion on the quality of this work as I'm having a bit of a nightmare - the floor is finished and although the tiler came very highly recommended it just doesn't look high quality to me.

    I've had my 65m2 floor tiled with 80x80 porcelain tiles and 5mm grout lines and the job has been more or less finished so I've paid the majority of the bill.

    The tiler grouted but didn't do a very good job of the grout, he pulled too much out in places so it was much too deep. He came out and checked and agreeded it was poor so he said he will regrout when he gets time before Christmas. But now I've had time to clean and polish the tiles down properly I've noticed quite a few things look wrong and I'm wondering if they are what you would expect from an expert?

    The grout lines were supposed to be 5mm but some are 6mm and some are 7mm, lots of the corners are out by a few mm and when you look down the grout lines they don't look straight because of the different spacing and wonky corners. Where you have a 7mm grout line coming off a corner next to a 5mm one it looks pretty bad.

    Also some tiles are higher than others. I think it's called lippage. It not enough to trip but its about 1.5mm difference so you can see it with your eye.

    I've added some pics below of the issues. Am I being too picky here or is it bad enough that I should I be asking for it to be rectified somehow (although I'm not sure how it could be fixed without starting again as if you fix one alignment issue it will just create another one)?

    To be fair the guy was ill during the job which held him up so perhaps he was just having a bad day/week at the office. I don't want to hang him out to dry as I'm sure he wouldn't have done anything deliberately but I don't think I can live with these issues. I notice them every time I go in the room now.

    If this was your floor would you complain and if so what action would you expect from the tiler?

    Thanks ever so much for you're help

    Toni

    IMG_5776.JPG IMG_5777.JPG IMG_5786.JPG IMG_5822.JPG IMG_5851.JPG IMG_5856.JPG
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2016
  2. antonio

    antonio Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    italy
    I too many times I'm sick, but that does not mean I have to work evil !!!!
    Here the problem, could also be tile uncalibrated, but the customer should be warned. grouting and flatness, by chills
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. antonio

    antonio Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    italy
    omg
    it seems that he used grinder, to align the tiles.
     
  4. Dan

    Dan TilersForums.co.uk Est.2006 Staff Member Top Contributor NOT a Tiler

    Location:
    Staffordshire, UK
    [​IMG]

    I'm sure the cut edge is on the inside on the two top tiles in this image?

    The tiles may be sized-poorly, as Antonio says above. Perhaps you can measure some?

    But some of the blame has to be down to the employer, you!
    You need to make sure you get a few estimates, and check references for each, see examples of work, etc.

    Just going for the cheapest tiler, or the one the bloke in the pub said to use, doesn't cut the mustard these days. Far too many chancers about.

    Haven't read your post, didn't have time, but looked at the pics.

    I'd not be happy with it. But whether it's tile quality, tiler quality, or owner of the floor just going for the cheapest, doesn't matter - The floor isn't brilliant.

    Edit: just looked again - is that bottom right tile bowed something rotten down the left hand side of it??!?! - or is it the stella kicking in?
     
  5. Terry the tiler

    Terry the tiler Active Member

    Location:
    Norwich
    Looking at this I wouldn't be too happy but before I say too much about the work, I have laid tiles (mainly cheap bnq/wickes/homebase) before and the tiles vary in size sometimes as bad as 2/3mm. This is a nightmare and sometimes you have to bin spacers off to compensate.
    It looks to me like he didn't use spacers so this may be the case.
    The deep grout joints he has no excuse and if they are cut tiles on the inside there is also no excuse.
    Maybe when you call him back round you should ask the question he may be able to tell you why.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. timeless john

    timeless john Trusted Advisor Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    North East England
    A picture from distance may show more.
    Who supplied the tiles and where did they come from?
     
  7. Toni

    Toni New to TilersForums.co.uk

    Location:
    birmingham
    Hi,

    Thank you so much for the replys,

    Dan, there is no cut edge in that picture. They are full tiles aligned like that.

    I've checked a few tiles and they seem exact to me. I've got a few boxes left so I'll check them in the morning but the ones I've checked so far look ok.

    Regarding price, he definitely isn't the cheapest - I went with who came with the best professional recommendation. He was hired to replace a faulty floor that was supplied to us by tile choice.

    Tile choice were very good and replaced the tiles for us with new ones and agreed to pay for half the fitting cost once the job was finished. They would probably have paid for it all but I didn't push for that, I just wanted a nice floor and was happy to contribute to get it sorted without too many arguements.

    This guy is one of the top two guys tile choice recommend in their shop. They say he normally goes over the top to get things perfect which is why I picked him. They didn't just say that to save money as they always recommend him to their customers without complaint. He his known to be a good tiler.

    That's why I wanted to check if the pics look bad to other tilers as i was expecting the work to be amazing - it's come as a real surprise!
     
  8. Toni

    Toni New to TilersForums.co.uk

    Location:
    birmingham
    IMG_5784.JPG IMG_5785.JPG

    Here are some more distant pics. If you look down the length of grout it seems to wobble. It's not uniform.

    Also, he used spacers when I was there - 5mm ones. But maybe he didn't use them on some bits.

    I'm fairly forgiving, any mistakes won't have been deliberate. But when your expectations are so high it's terrible to have a floor that looks so bad.

    Ps...apologies for the crocs in that picture. Ha ha
     
  9. Martyn Leeds

    Martyn Leeds Professional Tiler

    Location:
    Leeds
    Usually in the tile sheds, the 'best' tiler that they tend to recommend the most, tends to be the bloke who spends the most, or sends them a good flow of gullible punters.
    He might also bring them butties on a morning, donuts on a Friday, hangs around for an hour drinking the free coffee etc...

    By no means do they tend to be the best tilers though

    only my opinion, obvs.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  10. timeless john

    timeless john Trusted Advisor Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    North East England
    There are issues. But how much is due to the tiler and how much is what he has to work with in tile quality is not totally visible . He should have of course refused to fix them if they were so bad, but it's difficult to criticise the supplier who gives you work!
     
    • Like Like x 3
  11. gamma38

    gamma38 [email protected] Professional Tiler

    Location:
    Bedford
    As John says above, I would also add that a great number of tiles are being sourced by the customer on line because they are cheaper. Too many tiles nowadays are of a very poor quality. As a tiler you can say something to the customer, but sometimes they don't want to hear it. All they hear is "this guy is trying to get more money out of me etc" plus telling the customer that the tiles they have supplied are no good is sometimes not the easiest conversation, especially if they tell you what a great deal they got and what a great company they were to deal with. You just look like the bad guy. Personally I always get the tiles on day one and have a good look, place them back to back to highlight issues etc. Have a good chat and go from there.
     
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  12. Toni

    Toni New to TilersForums.co.uk

    Location:
    birmingham
    You may well be right Martyn, I took them at face value but also, knowing the issue they were already rectifying I don't think they would have suggested anyone dodgy to fix it as it will look so bad on them.

    I'd hope that as tile choice are paying 50% of this fitting they won't be too happy if the work is poor either - especially as they recommended him in the first place.

    That's why I'm sure this won't be deliberate - he won't want to risk his relationship with them. It's more likely a bad day at the office - but that doesn't help me still unless we can fix it.

    Re the tiles being poor. I will definitely double check this tomorrow with the boxes I have left and report back but the 4 I've checked that are here and haven't been fitted are absolutely spot on 80x80.

    And If he'd said the tiles are poor I'd definitely have listened as the original floor was being replaced because of poor tiles - he knew that, so if it was a tile issue I'm sure he would have said along the way.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2016
  13. Cstiling

    Cstiling Professional Tiler

    Location:
    Isle of man
    Personally I don't think it's great ,definitely contact the tiler he might hold his hands up and come up with some solutions to fix the problems. Hope you get the result you want
     
  14. timeless john

    timeless john Trusted Advisor Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    North East England
    You've already had issues with the previous tiled floor and Tile Choice are replacing it and paying 50% of the labour for this one. Not having much luck are you! Do you think they might just give you the job for nothing now or will the tiler risk his relationship with them.
     
  15. Toni

    Toni New to TilersForums.co.uk

    Location:
    birmingham
    I'm really not, I really can't believe it to be honest. Knowing the issues we'd already had is have thought this tiler would have done his best to make it perfect for us. Im absolutely gutted as we love the tiles but I can't live with these issues.

    I've spent two years renovating our house from a total derelict state and everything else is perfect now so I need this floor to be right otherwise what's the point of making such a nice job of everything else?

    Even if this was free I wouldnt be happy to live with it. I'll have to fix it even if that means starting again:(

    I guess the best I can hope for is he can fix it some way. Or he refunds the fitting cost and I'll just have to put it down to experience and start again.
     
  16. Toni

    Toni New to TilersForums.co.uk

    Location:
    birmingham
    Ps... I don't think I'd expect him to pay to replace the whole floor. It's a mess but that would be a huge undertaking for any one man band. I'm gutted that my floors a mess but I wouldn't want to half ruin the guy to fix it unless he'd done it maliciously - which he won't have.
     
  17. timeless john

    timeless john Trusted Advisor Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    North East England
    Yeah - it's always the tilers fault!
    I don't agree it's a mess - I agree there are issues but not wholly with the tiler!
    You haven't explained the first floor tile problem and perhaps your expectations were too high.
    65sq mts and 4 photos of joint variation doesn't make a mess -IMHO.
    There are many factors to consider, floor preparation, tile quality, 5mm joints for 800x800 tiles - and we are only seeing photos!
     
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  18. Ttt1601

    Ttt1601 Professional Tiler JOTM Winner

    I'd be interested to see 2 joints in sequence next to each other in one photo, if the tiles are sized wrong then you can have 1 joint looking wrong and the next 1 looking right, still fixer should be oddsing out the differences, and you say they are are 80x 80 when you check them but how exact are you beong, I rarely find tiles are exactly 800 x 800 or 600 x 600 etc. Don't get me wrong there is some workmanship there that needs addressing but sometimes the tiles can dictate the level of quality that can be achievex. If that is the case he should certainly of spoken to about it right from the off and even more so because it's clear the level of quality you are expecting.
     
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  19. Toni

    Toni New to TilersForums.co.uk

    Location:
    birmingham
    The first issue with the original floor was that the tiles weren't polished correctly down one side. About 1cm down one whole side on every tile was effected but it wasn't something you could notice even when looking very closely. Nobody including myself, the tiler or the boss at tile choice who came to see the finished job at the time noticed. It only became apparent a few months later when one side of every tile started to gradually discolour and we couldn't get the stains off.

    That was a tile fault - these things happen and this job was supposed to fix the issue. We couldn't get the same tiles again so we had to go with new ones and I picked the tiler that came with the highest recommendation - and he's got paid exactly his going rate for this. It wasn't done cheaply.

    He removed the old tiles and prepped the floor to re tile as part of the job so I can't say anything about the floor prep but it should be right if he did it.

    The tiles look ok size wise but I will remeasure tomorrow and I will stand them up together to check. If they were all different sizes though shouldn't he have told me he was having issues with them? And if there were issues I believe expert tilers can normally make a good job of it anyway by eye?

    The 5mm joints were needed to allow some movement with the ufh as the room is fairly long. 5mm aren't pretty at the best of times so the 6 and 7mm ones look awful.

    I agree you've only seen a few pics but I'd say probably 30% of the floor has issues like those in the photos if not more because if one tiles out by 2mm the whole row follows that. So every joint is then staggered and every grout line is on that row is then 20-40% wider than the one next to it. Nothing is uniform.

    I'm not saying 100% it's his fault. I'm just wondering if I should be complaining heavily or not and posted the photos to exactly for that reason - to see if my expectations are too high and what is reasonable?

    While the tiler was doing our job he was happy to critique our bathroom tiling saying it's poor as a couple or tiles in there sit ever so slightly higher than the rest. When someone talks like that it raises your expectations too.

    If this was free then I wouldn't complain but I've paid him thousands.
     
  20. timeless john

    timeless john Trusted Advisor Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    North East England
    Thank you - a fuller understanding has now been achieved .
    However to repeat - from these photos for 65 mts I don't think it's a mess!
    Good luck and thanks for posting.
     
  21. Dan

    Dan TilersForums.co.uk Est.2006 Staff Member Top Contributor NOT a Tiler

    Location:
    Staffordshire, UK
    I think tile size variations and shape etc might have stipulated some of those joint widths.

    Get 5 tiles butted up together out of the spares and see if any of those seem to be out of shape or square etc
     
  22. widler

    widler THE Troll Wannabe Professional Tiler

    Location:
    England
    How how this gone on , interested to know ?
     
  23. timeless john

    timeless john Trusted Advisor Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    North East England
    I think he's also stuttering with a reply reply.
     
  24. timeless john

    timeless john Trusted Advisor Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    North East England
    That was out of order!
     
  25. Toni

    Toni New to TilersForums.co.uk

    Location:
    birmingham
    Hi everyone,

    Thank you so much for the replys. That's a good idea about getting a few loose tiles down to check they are straight. I'll give that a go and see.

    Unfortunately though, now I've raised my concerns the tiler is ignoring me. Not very professional at all. I'm going to ring him again on Monday - after being ignored for a week I'm feeling far less forgiving.

    Funnily enough I've just noticed how easy it is to see exactly how up and down the tiles are. The skirting board gives it away massively. 2mm steps in places - it looks crap.
     
  26. Stustunz

    Stustunz Active Member

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Take a pic from ceiling height so we can see at least 8 corners to see if there is size variation.
    Those look like glazed porcelain or ceramic tiles not rectified porcelain.Often one corner will curl up or down when made with that type of tile.(pain the butt to get flat)and not been rectified means they are normally out of square also.
    Put 2 tiles face to face and see if they rock or can see light.
    Also measure on the diagonal each way to see if tiles are square.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2016
  27. timeless john

    timeless john Trusted Advisor Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    North East England
    If there's a 2mm gap at the skirting, up and down, then it may be bent tiles - not your Tilers fault!
     
  28. JMC tiling

    JMC tiling Professional Tiler

    Location:
    hemel hempstead
    agree with this, and a nice neat silicone bead will tidy it up nicely
     
    • Like Like x 1
  29. timeless john

    timeless john Trusted Advisor Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    North East England
    Perhaps decorators chaulk as its paintable.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  30. average

    average Active Member

    Location:
    Uk

    This is why i always use bigger spacers on floor tiles.
     
  31. Toni

    Toni New to TilersForums.co.uk

    Location:
    birmingham
    IMG_6079.JPG Hi everyone,

    Thank you ever so much for the replys.

    I now have a new issue. The tiles have started to sound a bit hollow and after our last issue I know that's bad. That started to happen last time and it just got worse and worse and is part of the reason we re-did the tiles before.

    When we were getting the tiles up last time the tiler said he couldn't believe they came up clean. Virtually no adhesive stuck to the tiles at all which he said was very unusual.

    This time he squeezed the tiles down a load to make sure the adhesive would stick to them.

    I've just taken one up and again to see what's going on this time and there is no adhesive on the tile. It's stuck to the floor like glue but the tiles come up virtually bare.

    Does the way the adhesive has been done look correct based on this pic? It is over ufh if that matters. And I followed the instructions on restarting the ufh to the letter of the manufacturers guidelines. Left it off for about 28 days and then turned it up very slowly day by day to get it up to temp.

    I think the way the tiler has stuck them down is probably is ok and the adhesives starting to fail for a second time but I wanted to ask for your opinion if you can help?

    This is an unbelievable predicament to be in.

    Thank you all so much
     
  32. Terry the tiler

    Terry the tiler Active Member

    Location:
    Norwich
    The only things I could think would cause this would be the adhesive being down too long and skinning up before the tile was laid or that there was slot of dust on the back of the tile which has made it not adhere.
    Very strange?!?
    The actual bed isn't perfect but I would say ita adequate and isn't the problem
    IMHO.
     
  33. antonio

    antonio Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    italy
    not buttered...
     
    • Like Like x 1
  34. Terry the tiler

    Terry the tiler Active Member

    Location:
    Norwich
    You butter believe it
     
    • Like Like x 2
  35. Toni

    Toni New to TilersForums.co.uk

    Location:
    birmingham
    Thanks Terry, I'd say no to both of those - he was working fresh with the adhesive so there is no way it would skin up and the tiles arent dusty at all really - I just checked an unopened pack and they are fine.

    Thanks Antoino - is that absolutely vital? I didnt think it was as long as the tiles were smudged down a load when fitting.

    Is buttering necessary as part of the tiling standards book (sorry I'm not sure what its called) - if it is then the tilers would be to blame but I'm not sure it actually is in there - so I think he's done enough here?
     
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