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Discuss What is your preferred method? in the UK Tiling Forum | Tiling Advice area at TilersForums. USA and UK Tiling Forum

Lakey

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Ok so I have a 3m x 2m bathroom to fit out & have just ripped the floor up back to joists.

What is your preferred method of preparation.
The tiles are 450 x 450 porcelain.

22mm NMP
Chipboard & tile backer
Chipboard & antifracture
Ply & Ditra.....etc etc?
 

Boggs

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I usual method is chipboard and 6mm Hardie.

But if all the floor is up and you can get it locally for a good price 22mm no more ply would be best I suppose.
 
O

Old Mod

There you go I learnt something new today, always try and learn something new everyday. :)

Hardiefloor is produced in Australia, and became uneconomical as a product here because it never caught on fast enough.
Which is a real shame, excellent bit of kit.
 
W

Waluigi

Ply and then HB/pro ply would be my choice.

If budget doesn’t allow it then Chipboard then TBB

For me, the large sheet of ply does it. As I do Bathrooms it’s rarely more than a single joint in the floor.
 
O

Old Mod

Ok..... anyone, everyone,.........why?
Please educate me, cos I’m obviously missing something.

After all, you must have your reasons, I’m interested in knowing them please.
 
W

Waluigi

Availability, less joints, tried and tested. No more ply 22mm might work just fine but in a Bathroom I’d still prefer that single sheet of ply or couple of sheets of ply and a single join then over boarded.

A joint every 500mm for me isn’t ideal with backer board IMO- In other words I don’t have the confidence in the product.
 
O

Old Mod

I’m not looking for a fight I promise. :D

I appreciate there is more than one solution, I use them myself all the time.
I’m not always comfortable tho, and of course I know budget can play it’s inevitable part, but I do struggle to get my head around a perfect solution getting ditched in favour of not only inferior products being used and a single part system being ditched for a two part solution.
#yagitme! :D:p
 
B

Blunt Tool

99 out of 100 times it’s an existing or old chipboard floor to start with and price dictates how I deal with it. The 1 time out of 100 I could have used tg cement board I thought it was obselete here until I was enlightened tonight! I saw the light, praise the board!
 
W

Waluigi

I’ll consider it for my next project but I doubt I’ll get further than the consideration. If it means I’ve got to travel somewhere quite far away to pick up 4 x £50 boards and 3 x £6 tubes of adhesive, I doubt I’ll do it.

If it’s in a local merchants and I weigh things up and it seems a viable option then I’ll go for it.

There must be a reason why it hasn’t taken off and I think I’ve just done my best to explain it.
 
O

Old Mod

Maybe I don’t know enough about it

I think one problem is that it’s viewed in the same way as their 6mm board, it’s nothing like it.

Firstly it’s structural.

Secondly it’s Tongue and grooved.

In perfect honesty, I’d go for GIFA board over No more ply, but is certainly go for the no more ply over everything else, if I had complete choice.
That’s all I’m really getting at.
Yes there are always extenuating circumstances for which ever course of action we take, but that notwithstanding, I’d still go for an inert structural board.
 
W

Waluigi

You’d Gifa GIFA Board? ;)

I’ll have a look into that one. Thanks.

I’m not adverse to looking into different methods but sometimes these things need a proper push by the manufacturers/suppliers.
 
O

Old Mod

I’ll consider it for my next project but I doubt I’ll get further than the consideration. If it means I’ve got to travel somewhere quite far away to pick up 4 x £50 boards and 3 x £6 tubes of adhesive, I doubt I’ll do it.

If it’s in a local merchants and I weigh things up and it seems a viable option then I’ll go for it.

There must be a reason why it hasn’t taken off and I think I’ve just done my best to explain it.

This is no different a scenario than Schluter in my opinion, everyone knows is typically a good product, but availability and cost can make it prohibitive.

In fairness I have to assess situations slightly differently these days, and I’m judging it on my own experiences, which isn’t particularly fair I suppose, so I’ll just leave now, and keep my nose out. :rolleyes:
 
B

Blunt Tool

Kinda on the same subject, customer was adamant that I tile directly onto his chipboard floor 15sqm, and that he had already researched Weber flexible adhesive which states and shows a video to promote this. He had even spoke to his local CTD shop and although the shop was not wanting to agree with this their head office had forced them to guarantee floor as long installer adhered to all instruction. I gave him quote for overboarding and told him not interested if not going for boards. It’s a major grey area and it’s not going to go away, but tiler is always going to get the blame when fails as adhesive manufacturers never back up the guy that spends their hard earned money on their products day in day out and yet throw him to the dogs as soon as their is a problem.
 
O

Old Mod

All day long Ian!
Weber in particular have a lot to answer for when it comes to Tiling solutions.
Their solutions page on their website should be removed, it suggests procedures we wouldn’t entertain, unless it suits our needs of course! Haha
 
W

Waluigi

This is no different a scenario than Schluter in my opinion, everyone knows is typically a good product, but availability and cost can make it prohibitive.

In fairness I have to assess situations slightly differently these days, and I’m judging it on my own experiences, which isn’t particularly fair I suppose, so I’ll just leave now, and keep my nose out. :rolleyes:

It’s all good. If it gives people that different option when doing a refurb then it’s a good thing. It’s certainly worth mentioning and if you think it’s a good option then you have the credibility on the forum for people to take note. Even a know it all like me :tearsofjoy:
 
B

Blunt Tool

Haha just a heads up don’t just type gifa in google then search, make sure you type in gifa board especially when the wife is sitting next to you haha no please don’t throw any more ornaments at me haha
 
O

Old Mod

Haha just a heads up don’t just type gifa in google then search, make sure you type in gifa board especially when the wife is sitting next to you haha no please don’t throw any more ornaments at me haha
Haha search GIFA board. Capital letters. :D
 
O

Old Mod

Well if you must use ply, at least use one layer of 12mm straight to joist.
Then cover that in wood glue, cross ply with another layer of 12mm then only screw that in to the first layer at 200 centres, do not go in to the joists.
That is more robust than using 25mm ply, it’s as solid as it comes.
 
W

Waluigi

Well if you must use ply, at least use one layer of 12mm straight to joist.
Then cover that in wood glue, cross ply with another layer of 12mm then only screw that in to the first layer at 200 centres, do not go in to the joists.
That is more robust than using 25mm ply, it’s as solid as it comes.

But you’re left with a ply wood to tile on to which means to meet the grade the ply wood you’re suggesting would have to be SP101 or FG1 or at least the top layer would need to be.
 
O

Old Mod

But you’re left with a ply wood to tile on to which means to meet the grade the ply wood you’re suggesting would have to be SP101 or FG1 or at least the top layer would need to be.
I ALWAYS use an antifracture Mat.
 
W

Waluigi

Regardless of the anti fracture mat, you’re still bonding to ply wood. If it’s general purpose ply then we’re talking about a thin veneered, poorly glued ply which is why I brought up SP101/FG1 or any other Indonesian Ply that might meet flooring grade.
 
O

Old Mod

Well that goes back to my original argument doesn’t it, ply is not a good substrate, period, even if it is overlaid by cement board, jackoboard, whatever board. It’s just poor.
It’s totally unstable.
But the best way to ensure longevity is to prevent deflection, and with ply, the best way is to use two layers.
If there’s no deflection it reduces the risk of it debonding ten fold.
Single layer ply still has deflection to an extent, that’s why it’s good practice to use an alternative, especially one that is inert.
Do you know, I’m sure there’s a couple of products out there that fit the bill.
s3955.gif
 
O

Old Mod

I’m sure this must be a similar situation as the choice of using push fit or brass fittings.
We all know you can use push fit, but it’s not always best practice is it. :rolleyes:
 
W

Waluigi

I think there are weaknesses in all methods and certain risks, possibly some methods carry slightly less risks.
I do take your points and am just playing devils advocate.

To an extent yes removing the ply wood from the floor entirely is a good idea. Replacing it with an inert board is also a good idea. The fact that these boards have a lot of joints is a negative for the system vs the large board size of ply wood.

The 12mm boards doubled up might be a good idea for strength but with general purpose ply it has a weak spot in the top veneer which anti fracture matting won’t stop. General purpose ply onto joists and then overboarding/glued and screwed does reduce the risk of the crappy veneer pulling away due to the mechanical fixings.

We can go around in circles all day with each method.

With regards to the whole push fit Plumbing debate. The same Plumbers who suggest that Push fit fittings are the work of the devil, also recommend Stuart Turner Pumps, which have OEM fittings on them made by John Guest (speedfit) it catches every Plumber out when the debate arises.
 

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