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DIY SOS. Helping people without time or money, in need desperate need to get a project completed. Then theres the Cowboy Traders, were Mel and Dom go in and fix problems caused by dodgy tradesmen.

After our most recent enquiry from a customer, it got me thinking.....

Story starts. Customer buys Black Quartz from us for a shower room. Underfloor heating too (don't worry, the quartz is good for it). Enter Builder, stage right. He lays Ditra, tapes the heating mat down. all good so far??? THEN DOT AND DABS THE TILES!!!! Pictures to follow in the "Poor Workmanship" thread.

Tiles come loose a few days later. But customer who also knows nothing about tile doesn't know he's done anything wrong at this point. She asks him to lift and re-lay the tiles.... Which he does, at for a few days on his normal daily rate.

As he lifts the tiles, he uses a hammer and chisel to get the old grout off the tiles. No https://www.tilersforums.com/forums/tile-adhesive/ to come off as it appears to have failed. Wonder why. He chips the edges of the tiles telling the customer there is nothing he can do about it and continues to refit them. The tiles are now down. Whether they have been DAD'ed again is anyones guess.

It was at this point we dug deep into the fixing method and pictures and found the route cause.

I put her in touch with ATS to see if there is a solution to sorting the edges out, but alas, only if the tiles are lifted again, polished and relaid for a 3rd time.

I have told her that she should not pay the builder any more money under any circumstances! I have put in writing everything he has done wrong so she has backup.

But here's the problem.... Money has run dry. she may need new tiles. The builder should accept liability, come back to correct but there is no way he's skilled enough. He maybe should pay a tiler to do it, but might wriggle out of it so he doesn't have to, regardless of how hard the customer pushes him. She needs a Pro, but can no longer afford one after being fleeced. If it went to court, would she win? How long would it take?

In the meantime she has a shower room that I wouldn't trust using until all the tiles have been refitted correctly for fear of causing further damage.

So how many of you have been to quote a job, customer has given you a similar story and you have been overwhelmed by sympathy, that you've just done them a favour and done it for nothing? Would you ever consider doing this if the dire need arose knowing they had properly been screwed over?

Don't worry, i'm not asking if anyone would be willing to do this now for her, but your thoughts on this would be appreciated.
 
OP
C

Colour Republic

Question for you Paul.

Seeing as the tiles need to come up again, have you replaced all the tiles FOC because you felt sorry for her?
 
OP
T

Tile Shop

Wouldn't ask if the company wasn't willing to do the same. They haven't been supplied yet, but the order has been reserved and signed off, ready to be shipped. Its going to be dependent on how the customer wishes to proceed and what the situation will be with her builder. So at the moment its just the tiles, but we can also supply the ditra, https://www.tilersforums.com/forums/tile-adhesive/, grout and sealer if required. UFH and insulation i'm stuggling getting signed off, but to be honest, we're not doing bad considering it was only the tiles we supplied her in the first place. But still trying :)

It is only on very rare occasions, but the supply of products has been done in the past for a whole manor of reasons including a customer getting "done over". Don't get me wrong, we don't just roll over for everyone who's had a bad experience. We tell them that the builder has screwed up and he should fork out for fixing it. 9 times outta 10, they do. But then you get the odd sly one that gets away with and leaves the customer at the bottom of a deep well with no rope, that you can't help feeling sorry for. She has an incomplete job, an excessive bill that has risen from the original quote, and no money left.

On one hand it kinda refers back to a previous thread about should the customer take some of the blame... yes if they employ a tiler for a job. But she has hired a builder to do a complete refit, not just the tile and nievety sets on and everything said by the builder is believed. So at the end of the day, its not our responsibility. We don't have to do anything.

So I'm not touting for anyone to do this... thats not what I'm asking, but would anyone or has anyone supplied their time for free out of sympathy?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Andy Allen

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I looked at a job yesterday.....builder had put new joists in 400 mm apart then put 12 mm ply on top and expected a tiler to Tile it...
To say it was like a trampoline was an understatement ......when I told the customer no tiler worth his salt would touch this floor as it was he replied the builder said it's fine to Tile. .....well tell the builder to carry on then......to be honest I'm sick of wasting my time looking at some of the crap that's being knocked out at the moment...
So in short no I wouldn't do anything for nothing.....at the end of the day I'm not a charity. ......and yes she should of done her homework and got a proper tiler in and not the bodging builder.
 
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D

Dalef

Why she never got a proper tiler in I never know however you've got to feel sorry for her. Yes she should of done her homework first, but it is the builders fault for accepting the job in the first place. Cowboy builders!!!!
 
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T

Tile Shop

Update. She's managed to get hold of him. Not by the throat or anything. Shame. No more details on the addy tho.

He wants to call it quits on the job and has said he will not charge her the remainder of the bill.... not good enough for her..... she's gunning for him! She has told him to pay here back the value of the tiles, ditra, heating, https://www.tilersforums.com/forums/tile-adhesive/, grout and upon geting a quote from a pro for the labour and other bits, he can pay for them too. If he declines, she will be taking him to court. I'll be helping her out with any info she needs to take it further.

Following a thermonet refresher training session I had the other day, I didn't know that if the heat from a cable cannot be distributed into the https://www.tilersforums.com/forums/tile-adhesive/ or slc, the cable can overheat, expand and explode at that point. So if he's DAD'ed it for a second time, that could happen anywhere on the floor. With water passing through the grout and having loads of room to flow..... that could be nasty! good angle to hit him from? starting point at least.

So as it stands at the moment, we are keeping her tile order on hold maybe til the begininng of next week, as she is prepared buy the stuff again if she can get her money back, which is fair. We will still supply if required and can even get her the UFH now too :) he's got til friday to respond. She is going to try and lift a couple tiles and provide more photos if its been laid wrong again :)

Fair play to her for trying to take this further. Don't fancy her chances, but if only more customers had the balls to follow it up and not back down too easily.
 
OP
S

StevieBoy

It's such a shame when you go to a job and hear of stories like this, you can't help but feel a bit of sympathy for the customer especially if the money has run out.

I once went out to look at a job a builder had done for an elderly couple where he'd dot and dabbed the floor tiles, one on each corner and one in the middle, straight onto Lino.

I re-did it properly for them and charged for my time as I would any other job - but let them have all the primer, https://www.tilersforums.com/forums/tile-adhesive/ and grout at cost as I did feel for them.

I don't think you can do much more really, they should have done their homework etc, but at the end of the day we're all doing this for our livelihood.
 
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O

Old Mod

I re-did it properly for them and charged for my time as I would any other job - but let them have all the primer, https://www.tilersforums.com/forums/tile-adhesive/ and grout at cost as I did feel for them.
.

Hahaha ur all heart @StevieBoy!

lol-045.gif
 
OP
B

bcd-87

Update. She's managed to get hold of him. Not by the throat or anything. Shame. No more details on the addy tho.

He wants to call it quits on the job and has said he will not charge her the remainder of the bill.... not good enough for her..... she's gunning for him! She has told him to pay here back the value of the tiles, ditra, heating, https://www.tilersforums.com/forums/tile-adhesive/, grout and upon geting a quote from a pro for the labour and other bits, he can pay for them too. If he declines, she will be taking him to court. I'll be helping her out with any info she needs to take it further.

Following a thermonet refresher training session I had the other day, I didn't know that if the heat from a cable cannot be distributed into the https://www.tilersforums.com/forums/tile-adhesive/ or slc, the cable can overheat, expand and explode at that point. So if he's DAD'ed it for a second time, that could happen anywhere on the floor. With water passing through the grout and having loads of room to flow..... that could be nasty! good angle to hit him from? starting point at least.

So as it stands at the moment, we are keeping her tile order on hold maybe til the begininng of next week, as she is prepared buy the stuff again if she can get her money back, which is fair. We will still supply if required and can even get her the UFH now too :) he's got til friday to respond. She is going to try and lift a couple tiles and provide more photos if its been laid wrong again :)

Fair play to her for trying to take this further. Don't fancy her chances, but if only more customers had the balls to follow it up and not back down too easily.


That all sounds terrible mate.
Fair play to you, you sound like a nice chap.. The whole court route is costly time consuming and at the end even after a court order he still may not pay up.. Leaving your client out of pocket further.. This type of thing needs to be made illegal to many people get away with it.. Good luck God bless
 
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M

Millington Deco

If she takes him to court and wins he can simply fold the business and start again especially if he's Ltd, no threat to his property or assets. Happens all the time, firms close when their in trouble write off all their debts and hey presto trading again in another name next week.
 

Chalker

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I think the builder shoud take everthing back up and supply new tiles.

Then he should credit the cost he allowed for the fitting, back to the customer.
 

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