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Discuss Tiler messed up - what are my options? in the Tiling Forum area at TilersForums.co.uk.

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  1. TomR

    TomR Active Member

    Location:
    Cambridge
    We are renovating our house and currently the kitchen is being tiled. The tiles are 60x30 and the original tiler indicated these will need to be laid in thirds (rather than half offset) as the tiles can be slightly bowed, and this will minimise the effect - it actually shows this on the tile's packaging as well.

    Unfortunately, due to other delays they are using someone else to lay the tiles and despite my request, have laid it half offset. Essentially my question is, if left as it is, will this be problematic in the future? The build is already massively delayed and the tiles used were from a limited stock, so may not be replaceable - I have been in contact with the tradesmen we are using and have advised them of the situation and fully expect them to rectify the issue at no extra cost - but, if it the issue is mostly aesthetic, I would consider it acceptable for money to be taken off the final payment and they continue to complete the work (currently about 50% of tiles laid but not grouted yet).
     
  2. wrighty

    wrighty Professional Tiler

    Location:
    Northumberland
  3. impish

    impish Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler Top Contributor

    Location:
    Lancashire
    anything in writing, text or email? If not - then "DOH!"
    If the 1/2 bond isn't causing any issues with lippage, then I don't think you've any chance of getting it rectified.
    Please forgive the blunt question, but are you trying to simply secure money off, first and foremost?
    If aesthetics are SO important, I really expect my clients to communicate it in writing, for their benefit and mine.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  4. callatiler

    callatiler Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    Aberdeen
    So are the tiles sitting proud of each other with the half bond?
     
  5. Bond

    Bond Top Contributor

    Location:
    Highland

    Hi, unless there is a lippage issue,as you say it's an aesthetic problem. ( as your preferred option has not been strictly followed) I think with this size of tile in a bonding arrangement,half bond is more prevalent. Not sure about your thinking behind the payment deduction.
     
  6. TomR

    TomR Active Member

    Location:
    Cambridge
    Thanks all - I presume the "no" is in response to "will this be problematic in the future?".

    Yes, I did message the contractors in writing before they started work requesting this (even produced an illustration to indicate how I wanted it done - all in email). It isn't *really* causing a problem (I've attached an image for clarification along with an image of the packaging ), I just want to know whether it worth the "agony" of insisting it's done to my requested specification, or am I better off negotiating a discount on the remaining payment as my request was ignored. I probably wouldn't be so concerned, just the initial tiling subcontractor highlighted this and was adamant this is how he would lay them, and now someone has gone against his professional advice. I'm coming from a position of very limited knowledge of this field, so apologies if my questions appear frivolous.

    IMG_20170707_192502.jpg IMG_20170707_192746.jpg
     
  7. impish

    impish Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler Top Contributor

    Location:
    Lancashire
    Ok, so it doesn't look too bad. I can spot a few areas of unevenness which could have been improved on a 1/3 bond perhaps.
    Notice how the box recommends a 7mm MINIMUM grout joint?! Crazy.
    If I goofed and went against written instructions - accidental or not, I wouldn't be against compensating, but in all honesty I would really choke at anything more than 20% off.
     
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  8. wrighty

    wrighty Professional Tiler

    Location:
    Northumberland
    Admittedly there may have been a lack of communication between all parties involved, but I can see why the tiler has chosen the 1/2 bond method.......aesthetically pleasing vista between the wall and the kitchen unit.
     
  9. timeless john

    timeless john Trusted Advisor Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    North East England
    These type of posts make me wonder why I come here!
     
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    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. wrighty

    wrighty Professional Tiler

    Location:
    Northumberland
    Why @tj
     
  11. timeless john

    timeless john Trusted Advisor Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    North East England
    Anything for money off!
     
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  12. wrighty

    wrighty Professional Tiler

    Location:
    Northumberland
    If it was me I would always want to speak personaly with the customer regarding setting out
     
  13. timeless john

    timeless john Trusted Advisor Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    North East England
    You turn up to tile a job , some other tiler said this, box said this, instinct said this! Why the hell do they make tiles and tell you they have to be fixed 1/3 joint on a small tile - because they are shite!! But half way through they want a discount / I'd walk and tell them to keep the job. Looks better 1/2 bond anyway / but what do I know.
     
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  14. callatiler

    callatiler Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    Aberdeen
    I'd be recommending half bond to customer for that area, would look far too pieced in third bond
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
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  15. TomR

    TomR Active Member

    Location:
    Cambridge
    @wrighty@wrighty actually they did ask, and I've attached my response - I guess I wasn't particularly definitive about my request, but again this was only going off the advice from the previous installer (who is a tiler by trade) so I could only reiterate his suggestion

    @timeless john@timeless john fair enough, but bear in mind I have no experience in this field. I have one person (whose is a tiler first and foremost by trade) give me advice on how a job should be done (as I actually asked for it to be laid offset by half when initially consulted) and then this is advice is not followed through, it leaves me in a difficult position as I am unsure of the implications of this. They've already had to reinstall the underfloor heating once, would removing the tiles require that to be redone again? Would the bowing make the floor surface uneven to the point of being a trip hazard? Could it become worse over time? I do like the way it looks, but am concerned about any wider implications and only feel that, as a customer, my request was ignored and the work was done against the advice of other professionals, so is substandard in the eyes of the profession and deserves compensation.

    email.png
     
  16. Bond

    Bond Top Contributor

    Location:
    Highland
    Manufacturers one third bond and 7mm grout line, is to compensate for poor product. Recommended by them but not law. Half bond in this situation, is the way to go!
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. Andy Allen

    Andy Allen Metro specialist & forum entertainer! Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    Gloucester
    Who bought the tiles and where did they come from?
     
  18. jcrtiling

    jcrtiling Professional Tiler TTA Member Top Contributor

    Location:
    Salisbury
    Yes probably replace heating .
    No it won't become worse.
    Trip hazards . Something be assessed on site . But if it is that bad 1/3 bond probably wouldn't be much better.
    If you like the way it looks why not think I'm glad the tiler did it that way thanks very much I appreciate what you are doing let me have the invoice as soon as you are finished and I will pay as soon as .
     
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  19. Andy Allen

    Andy Allen Metro specialist & forum entertainer! Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    Gloucester
    And just remember if you don't pay in full all guarantees will be null and void.
    Least they would be if it was my job !!
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  20. jcrtiling

    jcrtiling Professional Tiler TTA Member Top Contributor

    Location:
    Salisbury
    Another thing I would probably would of refused to work with those tiles. There are lots of flat tiles available for not a lot of money . I put some tiles down the other week 1200 x600 flat as a pancake at £22psm
     
  21. impish

    impish Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler Top Contributor

    Location:
    Lancashire
    Please say where from! I have 250sqm coming up and customer wants that size...
     
  22. Simons70

    Simons70 Professional Tiler

    Location:
    Luton
    So in the end of day if you pay less money you are happy with the job?
     
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  23. jcrtiling

    jcrtiling Professional Tiler TTA Member Top Contributor

    Location:
    Salisbury
    Please message me as prices open forums etc and I will give you my phone no
     
  24. Localtiler

    Localtiler Professional Tiler Top Contributor

    Location:
    Yorkshire
    I would of suggested having them inline, no broken bond - no lips, cleaner look and a joint around 2 to 4mm if the tiles are really that sizey
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  25. callatiler

    callatiler Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    Aberdeen
    Was that a genuine dislike TJ?
     
  26. timeless john

    timeless john Trusted Advisor Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    North East England
    @callatiler@callatiler - sorry fat finger! It's too close to agree button. + I can't afford to upset too many people unless I'am in one of those happy moods.
    And reading this back I wasn't calling you 'fat finger'!
     
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  27. jcrtiling

    jcrtiling Professional Tiler TTA Member Top Contributor

    Location:
    Salisbury
    • Funny Funny x 1
  28. TomR

    TomR Active Member

    Location:
    Cambridge
    Thanks again for all your responses - this forum has been excellent in delivering comprehensive advice.

    On reflection, perhaps I should've titled this thread "I messed up and bought poor quality tiles and the tiler did his best". I purchased the tiles myself from a local independent retailer - they were certainly on the cheaper end of the scale (but not the cheapest), but we selected them on appearance before we knew the price. Although, given the advice provided so far, perhaps we would've looked to purchase something a little more expensive that would avoid the issues we have encountered (caveat emptor I guess).

    I've met with the tiler on-site and he apologised for missing the request in the email, but he felt (as others have mentioned here) that the half offset would suit the look of the room better. The lippage is minimal and, as has been suggested, that if just a aesthetic issue then best to leave as is.

    With regards to looking to reduce the payment, clearly this touched a nerve and I'll clarify by saying that this comes on the back of a few issues we have had with our contractors on this job. We were advised that we would need to be out the house for 2-3 weeks, and it has now been 8 with no clear end in site. They sacked the foreman halfway through due to an incident on another job and this has impacted the progress and resulted in mistakes (underfloor heating has been ripped up and replaced once already at their cost), so my concern was that if the job had not been done to an acceptable standard, we should not pay the full amount for the work. I don't think this is an unreasonable consideration.
     
  29. jcrtiling

    jcrtiling Professional Tiler TTA Member Top Contributor

    Location:
    Salisbury
    OK the tiler maybe maid a mistake but considering he was on site for probably 2or 3 days out of 8 weeks I don't think he should have to also mitigate for other mistakes
     
  30. Brian the Tile

    Brian the Tile Professional Tiler

    Location:
    north wales
    Tiler messed up ? Think about what you are saying ,has he messed up or just not done as you said or are you just out to get money off ?
     
  31. timeless john

    timeless john Trusted Advisor Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    North East England
    By there are some tilers on here that won't give the poor chap an inch!
    Once the full picture is uncovered we yet again see what situation the unfortunate finishing trades have to deal with.
    The OP realised his title mistake, accepted that we will defend a certain standard of tiling, and he has explained his way forward. We all know builders who are similar to his and at times you have to have a semblance of pity for clients who get the rough end of the job done.
    I for one thank him for his interesting post, have realised why I kept reading, and hope he receives a satisfactory job on completion.
     
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  32. GAZ5518

    GAZ5518 Tiler Extraordinaire Professional Tiler

    Location:
    EPSOM
    The last time I tiled with anything like a 7 mm joint was either "Terracotta",or slate... .. Or I rolled and smoked it..;)
    They appear to be porcelain .. 3-4 mm joint required ..
    And i think the Tiler had achieved an acceptable finish according to the pictures...The bond is the norm... ( what is normal these days )
    I'm surecwhenball grouted it will look good..
    With regards money off ... Be fair to the finisher ... If you like and accept it... Pay him/her the agreed amount.. Because if there should be a problem in the future , I'm sure you will have more chance of redress....IMPO..:eek:
     
  33. Tilerdurden

    Tilerdurden Professional Tiler

    Location:
    Scotland
    Other professionals? It was their opinion to lay them in 1/3 bond. If the tiler that laid them decided they looked better aesthetically then he has gone with what he knows. No right or wrong way just a recommendation. If you had communicated directly with him and made the request then I'm sure he would have carried out the job to your specification. I can hardly see a reason to withhold payment as he has done a reasonable job there. With regards to will it get worse....simply?.. no, they are set in with adhesive and are solid.
     
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  34. andy-p

    andy-p Professional Tiler

    Location:
    Central Scotland
    This......
     
  35. Tilerdurden

    Tilerdurden Professional Tiler

    Location:
    Scotland
    @jrctiling was it something I said? :anguished:
     
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