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How to Tile - Top tiling tips for walls and floors
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Continue reading the Original Blog Post.
 
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klouan

Thankyou sWe for taking the time to write these invaluable guides. As a newbie I am finding them really helpful.
 
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SnipSnap

Well said Marcus!

On the pricing I would add the variables:

Accessability to the work, parking, furniture removal, working around pets or children, boxings, trims, electrical sockets, work space, tile gradation, FUEL, floor and furmiture protection, drying times... and so on.

I always go to view the job and give the price accordingly but there are many tilers that give prices per m2. Most of these tilers will end up doing a quick and rubbish job in order to make some money and/or having disputes with the costumer.

The costumer needs to learn that they are getting craftmanship although different from each one of us and not an identical item purchased from different shops.

So, if you are a customer reading this, now you know better.
 
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sWe

A few pointers on customer relations


Introduction

Customers can be really tricky dealing with, as they tend to be human. We all know that humans are not to be trusted. Errr.

Humor aside, my principles of conduct when dealing with customers, can be summarized as expediency, polite professionalism, and honesty. It works very well with most customers.

Here follows a few pointers on what to be mindful of when dealing with customers, especially when quoting.


Quoting

Always be yourself, but with a professional overtone. If you like a little banter, then by all means engage in it, if it's appropriate. There's no need to get to know the customer during this phase, though that said, you should be courteous and answer questions, etc. Don't be distant, but do keep the customer at half an arms length, so to speak.

Getting to know customers a little is more appropriate once you're actually doing the job, as it might encourage them to do some free marketing.

Don't stick around much longer than necessary when quoting. There's no need to stick around one and a half hours when checking out a splashback job, the reason being you're not making any money by talking. You might also be inconveniencing the customer. Half an hour is usually more than plenty, unless it's a big job.

When quoting, always be specific. If a customer is unwilling to part with his or her ÂŁ, or if they're just careful, he or she will likely appreciate a detailed quote. They want to know what they're getting, and not getting, for your fee, not just that it's going to cost them 20 odd pounds per square meter plus materials. It's adds safety for you too, as you can refer to the quote if they want extras, and say "anything not on the quote will cost extra", and then you charge a day rate or whatever for it.

If you're not the cheapest tiler around, tell the customer so, and why. It is likely to win them over if they care about quality. Some (many) value low costs more than quality though. Use your own judgement.


Final notes

As you're doing a job, or when you're just completed one, never, ever, ask them if it looks good. That is for them to say. You're a craftsman, a professional, and you should know wether or not it looks good yourself. Asking makes you look like a jolly amateur who's hoping for the best and doesn't know the differance.

You can however, point out details of particular cleverness and/or technical correctness, but don't overdo it, and do not bragg.

"Note how I've seamlessly made x intergrate with y" or something like that is enough.


Warn the customer(s) to wear shoes when they're moving through the work area, so that they don't get stray shards, from nipping or some such, in their feet. Lil' ol' ladies especially, appreciate being "watched out for" a bit, and it increases the tea/biscuit ratio.

Keep the working area relatively clean. Put protective coverings in transit areas and take special care to protect sensitive surfaces and/or furnishings.

Tidy up before you leave. Vacum cleaning is top advice. Small commercial hoovers aren't that expensive, and it's greatly appreciated by customers. The ten minutes it takes to hoover, adds disproportionaly to your reputation.
 
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sWe

Choosing https://www.tilersforums.com/forums/tile-adhesive/ and grout with standards as a general guide


Introduction

First, a warning: This is a fairly technical guide. It is meant for intermediate to advanced tilers, but newbies can benefit from reading this too. If you find this sort of technical mumbo-jumbo boring, and don't want to read it, I have a recommendation for you:

Always read product specs and follow them. It can, and will, save you money and time. You'll learn alot as well.

Know this: I do not claim to be an expert on European Standards; I merely relay what I know. I don't have the documents themselves availible; I'm writing from memory. Please point out if I've mixed something up.


Onwards...

You may have noticed that most adhesives and grouts usually have a small collection of weird letter and number combinations in their specs. They may look like this:

BS EN 12004 C2F

Here's what this particular one means: Classified as Cementious, Improved(2), Fast-setting https://www.tilersforums.com/forums/tile-adhesive/, in compliance with the British Standards and European Norms, as specified in document 12004.

It's not as complicated as it seems, though it might be a bit confusing when you don't know what the letters and numbers mean.

Standards set a base line, which is the same as minimum performance requirement. A company which whishes to classify their products according to the existing standards, have to send product samples to independant laboratories, where the products will be tested to failiure. The lab will use methods specified in the relevant standards documents. A product may exceed the base line requirements, but for it to be classified, it must atleast meet them. The class and type description does not tell wether or not a product just manages to meet the standards specification, or if it exceedes it; neither does it say anything about the exact properties of a product. It does however state what minimum performance you can expect from the product in question. This is important, because the properties the classifications describe can be associated with certain applications. More on this as I go.


The low down, according to EN 12002, EN 12004, and EN 13888

These standards describe the general properties of materials classified according to them. If I remember correctly, EN12004 is the main standard for adhesives, and it describes properties, and specifies minimum performance levels.

EN12002 describes and specifies additional properties which adhesives and grouts classified according to EN12004 and EN13888 may have, specifically, transverse deformation, ie flexibility.

EN13888 deals with grouts. I'll go through them one by one.


EN12004
The types described in EN12004 are as follows:

Cx = Cementious, ie cement based bagged adhesives. Use a face mask when mixing, unless you want to risk asthma and/or cancer in the long run.
Dx = Dispersion, ie ready mixed https://www.tilersforums.com/forums/tile-adhesive/, aka tubbed gear.
Rx = Resin, ie epoxy. Use appropriate methods and protective gear when you use this, unless you're willing risk nerve damage and other nastiness as a result of breathing the fumes.

The x can be either 1 or 2. Explanation follows below.

The classes described in in EN12004 are as follows:

1 = Normal.
2 = Improved. Better adhesion and flexibility. Usable in most applications, in combinations with appropriate added properties.
F = Fast, ie rapid setting. Cures fast, and binds all, or almost all, of the water mixed into it chemically. A must when time is of the essence, or when working with most natural stone. Alot of natural stone can be discoloured by water, so you want to minimize the free water it's exposed to.
T = Tixotropical. That means it's loose when being handled, and fairly stiff when no being handled. That equals anti-slippage, a must for tile walls, especially if you do not use support, such as spacers.
E = Extended open time. Useable atleast 20-30 minutes after application to a surface prepared according to manufacturer specs, with a surface and air temperature of 20 degrees celcius. Some are usable for up to an hour. Standard open time is around 10 minutes, depending on temperature and humidity.

An https://www.tilersforums.com/forums/tile-adhesive/ described as C2TE, or Type C, Class 2TE is Cementious, Improved (2), and Anti-slippage (T), with an (Extended) open time of no less than 20 minutes.


EN12002
Additional properties not described in EN12004 and EN13888 are described here.

Sx = Deformable (able to absorb a minimum amount of deformation as specified in the numerical suffix)
1 = Flexible (greater or equal to 2.5mm, but less than 5mm).
2 = Highly flexible (greater than 5mm)

While most C2 rated adhesives can handle 6-12 months old concrete, most C2/S1-2 Adhesives can handle anything from 1-3 months old concrete (or older, of course) without cracking.

The less dimensionally stable a substrate is, the more flexibility is needed. The additives which make adhesives flexible also tend to improve adhesion, so if the substrate and/or the tiles are really dense or non-absorbant, a flexible https://www.tilersforums.com/forums/tile-adhesive/ or additive might be needed.


EN13888
Grouts. The types described in EN13888 are as follows:

CGx = Cementious Grout.
RGx = Resin Grout. Epoxy, in other words. Used when there are special mechanical and/chemical resistance requirements, and/ sanitary requirements. Very seldom used in domestic applications.

The classes described in EN13888 are as follows:

1 = Normal
2 = Improved wear resistance and reduced water absorbation.


Final notes


As previously stated, the standards specify what minimum performance you can expect from a product. Since manufacturers develop their products themselves, the actual content of the products can vary greatly between brands, though they might have the same classification. Manufacturers design their products in systems, which are guaranteed to work when used together as long as you follow the product specs and guidelines.
Therefore, try to not mix different brands too much.

Knowing what the classes and types mean, makes it easier to differentiate between products, and saves you time when picking materials. They do not replace the individual specs and guidelines however, so always read them when you've narrowed down the selection.

If an https://www.tilersforums.com/forums/tile-adhesive/ or grout doesn't specify which standard it complies with, I won't use it, because it could be powdered pig for all I know.



I've probably made alot of spelling misstakes and missed things when I've edited this post; I'll correct them as I find them.

I hope you've enjoyed reading this, and I believe this is one of my longest posts to date. That says something, ey? :thumbsup:
 
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SnipSnap

Great Stuff Marcus! :thumbsup:
I am impressed mate! Although I new a bit about the classifications and BS standards I would always need to consult the technical literature provided by the manufacturer before I know what that particular number would reference to. I am getting too old to remember each classification. That's why I like to stick (no pun intended :lol:) with one brand for as long as possible. It is nice having a comfort zone! :)
 
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sWe

Glad you like my writings :thumbsup: It's become a bit of a hobby, I must admit :)

I started looking into standards and classifications because, when I was an apprentice, my boss tended to buy whatever was availible from whichever store was located closest to the job. He was a sloppy planner, so he always bought too little of something.
It was a B*TCH to keep up with all the different brands at the same time, so I simply made it easier for myself. Sat down one evening, and then it stuck. Really made it easier for me to know what I was doing.

Since things are a bit quiet at the moment, I'll continue a little bit on the standards side of things in my next guide. I think I'll write a little something about tile classifications... Stay tuned.
 
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SnipSnap

Glad you like my writings :thumbsup: It's become a bit of a hobby, I must admit :)

I started looking into standards and classifications because, when I was an apprentice, my boss tended to buy whatever was availible from whichever store was located closest to the job. He was a sloppy planner, so he always bought too little of something.
It was a B*TCH to keep up with all the different brands at the same time, so I simply made it easier for myself. Sat down one evening, and then it stuck. Really made it easier for me to know what I was doing.

Since things are a bit quiet at the moment, I'll continue a little bit on the standards side of things in my next guide. I think I'll write a little something about tile classifications... Stay tuned.


Well... it makes sense... but a great lesson is: if in doubt, ASK!

I am always learning something new; that's why I joined the this GREAT forum (you can buy me a drink later Dave :D).

I know of few tilers that would be too embarassed to ask for help or advice... not me.
Like the "variables" on the estimates, the are are plenty more on choosing the right products for the right application. I have bal tech (GREAT guys)number on my mobile phone and if a new challenge comes, I only need to press a button and any stress goes away. :D
 
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DHTiling

OHH!! so i have.......:lol::lol:............god this means i am a gas bag like the wife........

marcus this is you in 6 months.....:grin:...happy posting........
 
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sWe

Well... it makes sense... but a great lesson is: if in doubt, ASK!

I am always learning something new; that's why I joined the this GREAT forum (you can buy me a drink later Dave :D).

I know of few tilers that would be too embarassed to ask for help or advice... not me.
Like the "variables" on the estimates, the are are plenty more on choosing the right products for the right application. I have bal tech (GREAT guys)number on my mobile phone and if a new challenge comes, I only need to press a button and any stress goes away. :D

Things would be easier if people dared ask. I didn't really have that opportunity when I did my apprenticeship though. My boss was good at slamming tiles up/down, but not much else, so I had no choice but finding out for myself.

I do call the manufacturers from time to time :)
 
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DHTiling

I use bal superflex neil and have no probs mate...you have to let it set up long enough then wash down....i know it can stick to the face of the tiles abit but that is the polymers.....once you wet it up it comes off..agreed elbow grease is needed some times but flexi is needed with certain types of tiles in todays market.....i.e porcelain..glass etc....
 
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grumpygrouter

I use bal superflex neil and have no probs mate...you have to let it set up long enough then wash down....i know it can stick to the face of the tiles abit but that is the polymers.....once you wet it up it comes off..agreed elbow grease is needed some times but flexi is needed with certain types of tiles in todays market.....i.e porcelain..glass etc....
Do you find the same with Microflex Dave? I always seem to have difficulty getting a nice finish with it. Maybe I am washing off too quickly?
 
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Gazzer

Do you find the same with Microflex Dave? I always seem to have difficulty getting a nice finish with it. Maybe I am washing off too quickly?


No problems here at all. It seems to dry quicker but once you start washing off its fine. I do tend to grout less than i normally would before washing down though.
 

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