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Discuss Sigma Kera Lift. Full version, well nearly. in the Tiling Tool Reviews area at TilersForums.co.uk.

  1. 3_fall

    3_fall Administrator. Staff Member Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    SW London
    So after spending the day with Derek @Sigma UK@Sigma UK
    Using the full Kera Lift system, I decided sooner or later I'd obtain one.
    Couple weeks ago someone I knew wanted to sell his, and not usually being the type to buy new tools, I thought I'd take a punt this time around.
    Coming at under 20Kgs, the Kera Lift is the lightest extra large format lifting system out there.
    With the Montolit 'Stick' at 35Kgs ish and he Raimondi at a mere 60Kgs!!
    It has a built in stand, unlike the others, and to be honest as lifting systems go, it's bloody marvellous.
    I've that incredibly helpful man Derek to thank for giving me the opportunity to test before I buy.
    If only that service was more freely available!
    Imagine how much money we'd save on bloody useless or unsuitable tools.
    The Kera Lift is very versatile and can be used in many different configurations.
    And with the built in stand option and wheels it's a mobile bench for back buttering too.
    They're an investment for sure, but I can see them holding their money pretty well too, cos there's not a lot of alternative ways of handing these large sheets, especially if you've taken a great big piece out of it. Haha they stabilise the cut piece and hold it firm until its fitted.
    And today it enabled me to handle and fix
    1800 x 900 with a complete novice, who hadn't even seen one let alone fitted one, with complete confidence.
    He even back buttered the tile whilst I trowelled the floor.
    Normally I'd be worried sick that it'd be broken.
    Very impressed indeed. :thumbsup:

    And of course it's available at everybodies favourite store @Pro Tiler Tools@Pro Tiler Tools :)

    IMG_1447.JPG

    IMG_1448.JPG IMG_1470.JPG IMG_1471.JPG IMG_1473.JPG
     
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    Last edited: Aug 17, 2017
  2. callatiler

    callatiler Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    Aberdeen
    Good review Marc, does look the biz, hopefully never need it, Ill keep going around telling customers large format went out of fashion like Peter Andre and 6x6 bumpy white is the new thin porcelain to have ;)
     
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  3. 3_fall

    3_fall Administrator. Staff Member Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    SW London
    Cheers Ian, but it is actually a bloody good bit of kit, blowing smoke where the sun don't shine has never been one of my finer qualities haha
    It is what it is, I can't say no more than that really.
    Ain't got time to pay lip service! Haha
     
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  4. impish

    impish Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler Top Contributor

    Location:
    Lancashire
    You need to ask Derek for the wheels Marc!
    (Nice review btw)
     
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  5. 3_fall

    3_fall Administrator. Staff Member Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    SW London
    I've been on to Sam Mark, it's not a spare that is generally available in the uk.
    Enquiries are still being made but as we are all too aware, nothing happens in Italy.







    Oh sorry, until the 28th :D
    So I'll just have to wait and see if
    Sam from @Pro Tiler Tools@Pro Tiler Tools can work his magic.

    Or I'll just ring Derek @Sigma UK@Sigma UK haha :p
     
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    Last edited: Aug 18, 2017
  6. impish

    impish Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler Top Contributor

    Location:
    Lancashire
    It's the best frame /stand combo available. Just lightweight, strong, intuitive to use and not over engineered like others.
    The only weakness in my view is the safety 'hooks' which are metal and liable to chip the tile edge. They need to be either nylon or cushioned.
     
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  7. 3_fall

    3_fall Administrator. Staff Member Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    SW London
    Yeah I have the hooks, but not fitted.
    Have you used them Mark?
    It appears they would interfere with installing the piece, or am I not looking properly haha
     
  8. impish

    impish Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler Top Contributor

    Location:
    Lancashire
    They're meant for additional safety whilst carrying the frame, for instance upstairs. But if the suckers managed to fail and the hooks caught the tile, I suspect the tile would be damaged.
     
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  9. 3_fall

    3_fall Administrator. Staff Member Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    SW London
    So to try and make this a well informed thread, below is a conversation (in part) from last night in a parallel universe :)
    I think it's important that I share it because it proves the point of experience playing a massive part in getting our job right.
    And after all, all our experiences are different and I'd hate to think that on the strength of this thread someone would suffer an accident or waste their valuable time and money.
    So whilst in part these guys agree with my findings on the Kera Lift, they feel it's field of use is limited, and here's why.


    Mark Edwards from Home Counties.

    Ste you use the Raimondi don't you? Have you tried the sigma?


    Ste from Manchester

    Yes pal I have the sigma the raimondi t move and the raimondi easy move the t move is heavy we only rate the sigma for the smaller large format but when you get the 3200x1600 I don't trust it we always rely on the easy move for them we have had full slabs on that back serrated and winched up about 9 metres high with no worry or concerns so for us that's the one but they do all have great qualities it's all down to what your planning on doing



    Garry from Australia

    We have this system (Sigma) minus the stand , it's very good and efficient for the smaller of the large formats , but with the larger slabs at 70kg plus this system we don't trust those suckers, we also have he Monty Superstick this we find very good also mainly for the larger slabs at 3.2x1.6x6mm and above this is by far better , both good bit of kit


    Dereck from New Zealand

    Good Luck with the Kera Lift system. I own a Sigma and Montolit tile cutters and I'm happy with them. However large format tiles handling and cutting is another world. Garry Giulia you're right , Kera Lift is good for the smaller of the large formats but too fragile and difficult to handle for the real big format tiles. I am considering buying Raimondi or Montolit also because almost all the main tile manufacturers in Italy and Spain are endorsing these 2 brands for large format tiles. Marc, looking at the pictures that you posted, this kera system still has basic black on/of suction cups on it. Oh my god, this is so risky and dangerous. For this reason Montolit and Raimondi abandoned these kind of basic and cheap suction cups many years ago :) I love Sigma and I'm sure that they will urgently present an upgraded model during the big tile exhibition in Italy. I'll wait that time to reconsider to buy a Sigma handling system.


    Garry


    Dereck Taylor we also have this Raimondi system , they are very good but extremely heavy in my opinion and we don't find the suction cups work as good as the Monty system , we found the cups were letting go after a while so we don't use it anymore


    Dereck

    Last year I attended a product demo of Raimondi and they explain very well that suction cups with black rubber are rigid and they don't stick very well on textured tiles. Grey or orange rubber are softer and works pretty well and work better on textured tiles. From what I can see the extra weight of the other handling system is connected with additional features, probably necessary features.


    Garry

    great system marc the sigma, we have had this for about 4 years and we still do use it on occasion when doing 3.5mm porcelain , i find it pulls apart quicker than others and is easier to rearrange also


    My response to Dereck

    Well that's the great thing about forums like this, it gives us all the opportunity to voice our opinion on what we experience.

    To date I have been mainly involved in the smaller of the ex large formats and typically in a domestic environment.

    Personally I steer clear of commercial projects as far as possible.

    So in my experience so far, with the materials that I currently fix frequently, the sigma works perfectly.

    And as I know and trust both Ste Wagie and Garry Giulia, I'm more than open to take on your point of view Dereck.

    And the images I posted of the sigma attached to the tile is a broken down arrangement.

    It consists of only 2 x 1.9m rails and 4 x 1m rails.


    as I feel that this extra insight is important, I thought it would be irresponsible not to post it.


    I hope the above information helps with anyone considering a lifting system
     
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  10. Matt Bott

    Matt Bott Professional Tiler

    Location:
    Northampton
    Very interesting read makes a lot of sense I did notice sigma have the cups that you thumb pump Marc
    IMG_1310.PNG
     
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  11. 3_fall

    3_fall Administrator. Staff Member Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    SW London
    Yes they do Matt, but what they're saying is that the regular back rubber isn't as good as other types of rubber available. So we'll see if Sigma have a change of heart in their choice later in the year.
    Developing a new form of tooling in any industry takes years of R&D, do it's not surprising that all these companies have different ideas currently, ex large format is still relatively in its infancy.
     
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    Last edited: Aug 19, 2017
  12. impish

    impish Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler Top Contributor

    Location:
    Lancashire
    Valid points there Marc, my tiles so far have all been large format + thin porcelain.
    I appreciate that there are still large format 10mm up to 20mm which would be crazy heavy!

    I even heard recently of Italian's threatening to release 5m x 1.6m x 20mm - anyone care to guess the weight?!

    But for the most part, where I can specify thin porcelain, the Keralift is the clear winner.
    I particularly like the point about craning the tiles up great heights!
     
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  13. antonio

    antonio Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    italy
    I think it's still too early
    to figure out which is better.
    Try to follow the evolution of the tiles
    It is challenging and costly.
    I believe in maximum two years, will all three brands
    at the same level.
    it's just a matter of updating and follow
    Who finds the best solution.
    the basics are there for all three brands.
    There are only a few options to add,
    Over time.
    (I'm just talking about what I've seen and heard.
    I used only a sigma, a few years ago, but I did not;)
    I did not trust.)
     
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  14. 3_fall

    3_fall Administrator. Staff Member Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    SW London
    Up and around 350-400kgs I'd imagine Mark.
     
  15. 3_fall

    3_fall Administrator. Staff Member Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    SW London
    Here are some images of the Montolit 'Stick'
    Being actually used by Garry from post above.

    IMG_7864.jpeg IMG_7728.jpeg IMG_7720.jpeg IMG_7687.jpeg IMG_7404.jpeg IMG_7271.jpeg IMG_7281.jpeg
     
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  16. antonio

    antonio Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    italy
    The latest production facilities,
    They can build tiles up to 5 meters in length.
    All here.
    No one builds 5 mt tiles.
    Construct work plans for kitchens or the like,
    Which cut to size in the factory.
    Usually in 20mm thick.
    What I read on the internet is all here.
     
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  17. antonio

    antonio Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    italy
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  18. 3_fall

    3_fall Administrator. Staff Member Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    SW London
    No need to be sorry Antonio :)
    Yes Harry used the 54kg version :thumbsup:
     
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  19. callatiler

    callatiler Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    Aberdeen
    Quite a difference 20kgs against 32kgs and 54kgs especially when manoeuvring.
     
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  20. 3_fall

    3_fall Administrator. Staff Member Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    SW London
    Perfect use for the lightweight Keracut today

    IMG_1527.JPG
     
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  21. callatiler

    callatiler Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    Aberdeen
    Try lifting and placing that tile without it! Excellent example!
     
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  22. 3_fall

    3_fall Administrator. Staff Member Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    SW London
    Re fitting this failed floor is proving quite tricky.
    That piece is for around the left side of the staircase. Client is asking that we insert the pieces back as the original 900 x 900's
    Which is not too bad when you can put two pieces in side by side, one goes in left to right, he other right to left, simple.
    When they're 1800's and one piece is to tuck in under both sides of a space, yeah, not quite so simples. :(
    Oh yeah, don't help much either when originally the staircase was fitted on top of the original floor! :eek:
     
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  23. callatiler

    callatiler Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    Aberdeen
  24. callatiler

    callatiler Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    Aberdeen
    What you gonna do about staircase?
     
  25. 3_fall

    3_fall Administrator. Staff Member Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    SW London
    Well broke one today attempting it.
    It's the other half to the one in the image I've just posted.
    As you look at this one, the long piece goes down left side of staircase, you can see the notched piece for the newel post, and the large square piece wraps around the front of the bottom tread and reaches all the way across to the opposite wall.
    That one was easy enough.
    The one I broke wraps around the right side, under 3 newel posts and in to two cupboards, then across to the opposite wall and thro the new utility/bathroom door. Half thro door, half in to the wall.
    No skirting to be fitted, so no play there!
    I broke it trying to lower it under the 3rd newel post (which goes straight up two floors) which is in the middle of the two large pull out cupboards under the stairs. Haha
    We've had to excavate under the opposite wall in the hope that we can use that space to manoeuvre it in. Second try first thing tomorrow.
    Still, broken pieces made great template, and we can still utilise them for cuts.
     
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  26. callatiler

    callatiler Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    Aberdeen
    Not so easy with large pieces, down to Millimetre clearance then! Hope all goes good for you!
     
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  27. 3_fall

    3_fall Administrator. Staff Member Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    SW London
    Me too :)
    It's the last piece of the floor!
    Can move on to the walls then, phew! :p
     
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