BAL Problem with bal grout ebony - Tile Advice

[mark0161]

Thanks for all the advice, I'll definitely take it all on board, and I'll do my best to avoid the black stuff in future. Hopefully some lithofin sealer will do the trick on the rest of the bathroom.

 

[Matthew Holloway]

Erm so I think I have the same issue here.

Grouted on Monday it’s now Saturday if I run a damp rag over the grout lines I get the ebony grout line on the rag. I’ve been told to wait for the Bal rep. Nightmare as I have the plumber booked in on Monday to fit everything... I probably should cancel that.

What is this wet and cling film method?
Is it worth doing?

 

[mark0161]

Erm so I think I have the same issue here.

Grouted on Monday it’s now Saturday if I run a damp rag over the grout lines I get the ebony grout line on the rag. I’ve been told to wait for the Bal rep. Nightmare as I have the plumber booked in on Monday to fit everything... I probably should cancel that.

What is this wet and cling film method?
Is it worth doing?

It’s a pain in the arse but the cling film method works. Topps tiles refused to do anything about it and by the sounds of the original post it seems like bal won't do much either. They all blame under hydration but I had some areas to do after I found out about this bleeding issue, followed the instructions to the letter but same issue. No one accepts liability though so your left with this cling film method or removing the lot a starting again. Both are a pain but if you decide to remove it I can personally vouch for the tilemaster 3000 stuff someone else recommended. Did the customers second bathroom in that stuff and it worked a treat. I had grouted round tiny odd shaped mosaics so removing the grout would have been nearly impossible. Tried the spraying water then covering with cling film and it worked well enough, it took a few days of doing it twice a day, probably wasted over a day in total work time. But after 5/6 goes it seems to do the job. No phone calls back from the customer after 6 months so hopefully it'll stay good. Last time I use bal!

 

[Matthew Holloway]

Thanks for that, I am pretty gutted with this. If I get the grout out to start again Im sure I will ruin the tiles so this water or a sealer is the only way to go.

Anyway some photos, have I got this technique right?
First of all this was my batch, purchased late June

damp rag on the grout

using this to mist some water on the tiles

wet about this much

clingfilm

grout bleeds out under clingfilm

so is next step, tomorrow morning, remove all the cling film, rub down with a dry sponge/microfiber or a damp one? and repeat the spray clingfilm method.

If I do one in the morning should I be okay to do another around 6pm?

I want some bloody BAL compo after this one let me tell you. Seems funny how its all happened to us???? I'll keep thread updated anyway with whatever Kieran the Bal rep says.

 

[Dumbo]

Good luck with their mitigation department I had limestone grout that was grey and they reckoned nothing wrong with it .

 

[One Day]

I had a mis-matched white microflex (different shades, should have been the same) and they came up with help for me on that one.

 

[mark0161]

Yeah that looks exactly the same as mine. Seems like you're doing everything right from the pictures so just keep at it and hopefully it'll work. In the morning I'd wipe down with a wet sponge and repeat the process, really soak the grout in water before putting the clingfilm on. Then you should be fine to go again at 6pm, especially in this weather, should dry pretty quickly.

I really hope you get some sort of compo, don't hold your breath though. I'm convinced after testing it with perfect ratio mixes, plus wet and dry mixes, that it's just terrible grout, all of them came out the same. Also considering the unbelievable hassle of fixing the problem it's just not worth the risk in future. Keep us posted, I'd love for someone to get some retribution at least.

 

[Italy]

Pulizia Pavimenti | Trattamento Pavimenti Superfici Cotto e Marmo | FILA Solutions - https://www.filasolutions.com/eng/products/full-range/protectors/water-repellent-protection
a water repellent product could solve.
Salvaterrazza for example, acts only on the grouting

 

[Matthew Holloway]

The sealents could be an idea if this clingfilm nonsense doesn’t work.

So this morning I wiped down with a damp sponge, sprayed it loads and cling filmed again, I’ll add some really exciting photos up later but the bleed was a lot less overall like 80%less. Which is giving me hope.

I was thinking about BAL compo and how they will wriggle out but I’m actually in a fairly fortunate position where at the same time doing the bathroom with the micromax2 ebony I did the kitchen with micromax2 gunmetal and the gunmetal is fine. I also used Bal premixed white star adhesive for the whole lot too.

Can’t wait to hear their reasoning why it’s all my fault.

 

[Dumbo]

Somebody mentioned earlier . Under hydration
Try and prove otherwise, really I wouldn't bother , more time than its worth , chalk it down to experience and move on .
Their is a bal rep on tilers talk on face book
, go on there and say how crap this is and he will probably pick it up .

 

[mark0161]

It is difficult to prove otherwise, with things like this they'll always find a way to claim user error. I had tiled and grouted the splashback in the kitchen and utility room, behind the sink and the the floor in the downstairs toilet, the floor in the bathroom, plus by the time the topps tiles manager came out I'd done the walls and floor in the second bathroom too. All in a variety of bal, tilemaster and mapei, guess what? No problems with any of them, but it doesn't count for anything with those guys, they'll always just say I made a bad mix (even though it would need to be about 6 bad mixes).

 

[Dumbo]

It is difficult to prove otherwise, with things like this they'll always find a way to claim user error. I had tiled and grouted the splashback in the kitchen and utility room, behind the sink and the the floor in the downstairs toilet, the floor in the bathroom, plus by the time the topps tiles manager came out I'd done the walls and floor in the second bathroom too. All in a variety of bal, tilemaster and mapei, guess what? No problems with any of them, but it doesn't count for anything with those guys, they'll always just say I made a bad mix (even though it would need to be about 6 bad mixes).

Couldn't agree more . Stop using bal adhesives the are children without parents and stop using topps tiles who are selling inferior tiles at large prices and on a large scale and will eventually kill the tile market by getting everybody to think tiles are really expensive and aren't great quality

 

[Matthew Holloway]

As promised more exciting photos

this was this morning a lot less bleed, but still bleeding. did one more wrap at 7pm so total is now upto 3. see what tomorrow brings.

also may just be my eyes but i am noticing that when the grout is dry the black seems to be getting lighter than when its dark. maybe that's normal. hopefully im not washing the pigment away.

 

[mark0161]

Well bal and topps will feed you a load of crap about how you can't wash away their pigment as it's chemically bonded to the cement particles, which supposedly is what makes their grout the best, although we all know how reliable a claim that is now, so who knows really. I have had a colour uniformity issue with mapei before (if the bag isn't shaken up properly before mixing) but never with bal so it may be true to some extent, although I'm sure it's not as perfect as they suggest. Mine did stay pretty black, but it is quite normal for grout to absorb some water and look darker when wet so I wouldn't worry too much. The main thing is to stop it from bleeding and sure up the surface. Either way you should start to see results by Tuesday morning, maybe do it a couple more times that day if it is significantly better, that should be enough by then hopefully. If it's still bad by Tuesday you can keep going and hope it works soon, or try one of the grout sealants, but I can see why you are reluctant to remove the grout, those tiles are pretty small, it'd feel like a lifetime redoing all that grout!

I do dislike topps too, especially now, but too many customers go there and pick tiles before I've even looked at the job, maybe I need to be more assertive, I also need to find a good local tile supplier, they seem few and far between round my way.

 

[Unused Account 1]

Black grout not natural ,problems ,dark grey seems to be fine