Polypipe (Fixed Overlay) UFH - Tile Advice

[AliGage]

Evening guys and girls,

Neen out in the van this evening, away with my thoughts and was pondering over a job I have coming up in 4-6 weeks time.

It's a bungalow that will have the UFH mentioned in the title over-layed on all floors. To be tiled in 600x400 honed and filled travertine.

Here's a link to the UFH system:

Overlay Underfloor Heating

What prep, if any would you do prior to fixing?

 

[Ian]

Just read the bit that says ceramic/porcelain can go direct to it, I'd say that's not the case with stone. If it were me I'd give the pipes a 5mm layer of fibre slc then fit ditra, I would imagine the ditra could probably go straight into the pipes but I'd be slightly wary of voids in the pipe channels, hence the slc first. That's my take on it anyway

 

[Old Mod]

Tracy's was Polypipe!

 

[AliGage]

@Bri The pipes fit snuggly into the channels, there's never any voids.
I've tiled over it a few times. A builder I tile for always use it. I've never fixed stone over it though and find it interesting that wood can also be fixed direct to it, and as you say ceramics. But there us no mention of stone.

 

[Old Mod]

Prep would definately be the same!

 

[AliGage]

@3_fall Ah yes it was. But Tracy's needed unique prep work didn't it?

Prep would be the same as what Marc? Bri's or Tracey?

 

[Old Mod]

Tracy's, Polypipe won't advocate the use of a liquid substance over their pipe. They maintain it'll dislodge their pipes. So u have to board first before using latex, then u can Ditra mat it.
Jonnyc wrote a thread about it too!
He thought they were jokers, and said it.
However, that's their spec.

 

[AliGage]

Yes. See this is the thing. I see no advantage to using ditra straight over it. Certainly actually that there would be none.
There's no real necessity to SLC it. Infact putting SLC or rather boarding and SLC forces the use of ditra.

I always insist on a decoupler over any UFH, definitely when it's stone.
But im struggling to find a reason to do any of the stuff I've done as a rule in the past over this board.

It's also the builders opinion none is necessary and I'd hate to have to agree with him!!

 

[Rizzle from the Portizzle]

well working on this now 5 mm fibra self leveler heres some picks with the blakne mat testing how much flex it gives the make up of the matting will allow the heat to pass through very easy make sure the system is at least 5bar pressure with cold water before you self level

 

[Chalker]

No matter what the manufacturers say, all the expansion will be in the stone!
So a de-coupling layer will sort out any expansion.
My problem with these products is that, they are basically a floating floor. And we all know the problems.

 

[Old Mod]

Sorry wasn't making myself clear Ali
What I was trying to say was, that in order to be able to use SLC, It has to be boarded first.
That's if you were to follow their recommendations.
I just wanted to remind u that Tracy's was Polypipe, and u knew we were unable to SLC straight over it.
That way I didn't have to outwardly disagree with Bri!
Whether their method is right or wrong, we certainly know what we did, works.
It's been almost 18months now and I saw Tracy only the other week, and u know she would of said something if their were any problems.

 

[p4ulo]

Couldn't you overboard with Hardie, forget the SLC, ditra then tile?

 

[AliGage]

Agreed @3_fall it worked. But we had to be able to SLC that because of how badly the boards were put in in the first place.

@Chalker so if these boards were fixed to the substrate, they were level and good to go without needing any over boarding or slc. You would still use ditra? If the only thing you anticipate the stone expanding, what you using the ditra for?

 

[Old Mod]

Agreed @3_fall it worked. But we had to be able to SLC that because of how badly the boards were put in in the first place.

Yes Ali I know, the only point i was trying to make was that Polypipe won't agree to latex over their pipes!
That's why I explained myself this morning.
I wasn't suggesting your preparation, I was saying if u were to use those components on your floor they would need to be applied in a different order!
According to Polypipe.
Other UFH companies are happy for SLC to go on to their pipe work.
And I'm sure TTA recommend a decoupler be applied to a stone floor no matter what substrate.

 

[Rizzle from the Portizzle]

Yes Ali I know, the only point i was trying to make was that Polypipe won't agree to latex over their pipes!
That's why I explained myself this morning.
I wasn't suggesting your preparation, I was saying if u were to use those components on your floor they would need to be applied in a different order!
According to Polypipe.
Other UFH companies are happy for SLC to go on to their pipe work.
And I'm sure TTA recommend a decoupler be applied to a stone floor no matter what substrate.

so how many tilers work for poly pipe or any other wet uth company .so how have they gained there knoledge .how many diffrent tiles have they tested and adhesives decouplers .none would be my guess. leave it to the tile test dummys .next time ask for a copy of there test reports.on the tiles adhesive decouplers .they have tested .could be a long wait