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Discuss Lippage clips... charge or not? in the Tiling Forum area at TilersForums.co.uk.

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  1. Chris Gibbs

    Chris Gibbs Professional Tiler

    Location:
    North wales
    IMG_1960.JPG I've been using clips more frequently these days due to tile size, rectified edge tiles etc... trouble is over the month they can be quite expensive if you're using them on several jobs. Question is do you charge for the clips or not?
     
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  2. 3_fall

    3_fall Administrator. Staff Member Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    SW London
    Like any other consumable, should be factored in, why wouldn't you?
     
  3. callatiler

    callatiler Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    Aberdeen
    same, same factor into price.
     
  4. jcrtiling

    jcrtiling Professional Tiler TTA Member Top Contributor

    Location:
    Salisbury
    You should really . I had a job where a builder was meant get the tiler but couldn't. Any way I did the job and the householder said his tiler wouldn't of done such a good job ( he must be crap ) due in part I suspect of not using anti lippage clips . Quality costs.
     
  5. timeless john

    timeless john Trusted Advisor Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    North East England
    If it's going to add £1-£2 per metre onto your rate it could mean you don't get the job.
    It won't affect some tilers because they are working for discerning customers, but once you've used them you will be including them on all larger formats, and if the client baulks at the cost then they are probably not the clients that appreciate the efforts to do a quality job.
     
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  6. Localtiler

    Localtiler Professional Tiler Top Contributor

    Location:
    Yorkshire
    I agree with John.
     
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  7. Localtiler

    Localtiler Professional Tiler Top Contributor

    Location:
    Yorkshire
    The question is, do you mention your going to use them in your quote or just use them
     
  8. Andystiletiling

    Andystiletiling Professional Tiler

    Location:
    Burnley
    Just got turned over on my last job using clips, 60sqm pool surround...came to payday and I walked away with a cheque and part cash, stuck £50 for clips on the bill and he said "we'll just call that right for the cash then" :( ...shafted again, but normally yes I would charge for them
     
  9. LEE MAC

    LEE MAC Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    BELFAST
    I always include them in my list of materials, as Marc says "why wouldn't you?"
    If ever they're queried once I explain what they are and what they do there's no more debate.
     
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  10. Localtiler

    Localtiler Professional Tiler Top Contributor

    Location:
    Yorkshire
    For me, I don't make a list of materials
     
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  11. Andy Allen

    Andy Allen Metro specialist & forum entertainer! Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    Gloucester
    Why didn't you stick £50 on the quote ?
     
  12. impish

    impish Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler Top Contributor

    Location:
    Lancashire
    I stopped breaking down materials. Now it's just "materials" partially itemised and then one amount.
     
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  13. Rookery

    Rookery Professional Tiler

    Generally, my quotes say £££ materials + £££ labour. I don't itemise the materials so its all lumped together. That would include everything I'm going to use including a small amount for "consumables".
     
  14. Andystiletiling

    Andystiletiling Professional Tiler

    Location:
    Burnley
    .open ended day rate with all mats supplied(except clips) Andy.....there was no quote ;)
     
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  15. Andy Allen

    Andy Allen Metro specialist & forum entertainer! Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    Gloucester
    Ahhh .... Day rate...... should of guessed that.... :)
     
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  16. Joe Clinton

    Joe Clinton Active Member

    Location:
    Lincoln
    Agree with the comments so far, they need charging for, wouldn’t put them on the quote/invoice tho, it would be the same as putting spacers on when people used them.
    To be fair if your doing a 35m ish bathroom of 60x30’s it’s only bout 25-30 quid so worth it for the better finish in the end imho
     
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  17. timeless john

    timeless john Trusted Advisor Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    North East England
    The more competition the lower the price will become - eventually.
    I would not show it as a breakdown cost as customers would assume a professional tiler should be getting them level and lippage free anyway. However as a progressive development in our industry it's just another tool/consumerable required to attain that near perfect job. The increase in meterage has to make them cost effective.
     
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  18. AOS TIling

    AOS TIling Active Member

    Location:
    London
    So many tilers using clips these days? Won't be long before DIY enthusiassts become part of the competition I fear. I hope for the professionals on here that I am proved wrong, but can't see it going any other way.
    'Endorsed and used by professionals' will be their tag line on the shelves of Wicks / B&Q.
     
  19. Andystiletiling

    Andystiletiling Professional Tiler

    Location:
    Burnley
    You have read Mp3's how to tile a room then :):)
     
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  20. jcrtiling

    jcrtiling Professional Tiler TTA Member Top Contributor

    Location:
    Salisbury
    Anti lippage clips doesn't make the job idiot proof and I should know .
     
  21. jcrtiling

    jcrtiling Professional Tiler TTA Member Top Contributor

    Location:
    Salisbury
    More words in that than war and peace
     
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  22. Joe Clinton

    Joe Clinton Active Member

    Location:
    Lincoln
    It doesn't worry me, the levelling clips are great for what they do but they aren't fool proof, you still need the skill and experience that only a pro tiler would have
     
  23. AOS TIling

    AOS TIling Active Member

    Location:
    London
    I guess it's like Brexit, let's revisit it in say 2022 and all will become clear.

    On the cost issue, if I can't eat anything that I purchase associated with undertaking my work - I charge for it. It's an overhead
     
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  24. AOS TIling

    AOS TIling Active Member

    Location:
    London
    Who's Mp3? Is he/she making selling these clips ?
     
  25. Andystiletiling

    Andystiletiling Professional Tiler

    Location:
    Burnley
    Search it in the DIY forum, just goes to show clips don't make any difference if you don't know what your doing in the first place ;)
     
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  26. callatiler

    callatiler Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    Aberdeen
    I remember my tradesman saying same about manual tile cutters as he scored along the 6x6 opal whites with his scriber! He didn't use clips with them either
     
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  27. AOS TIling

    AOS TIling Active Member

    Location:
    London
    Genuinely sorry if I touched a nerve? Or maybe I didn't. I'm not getting the messages in your replies. Anyway, I'll leave it there as no doubt time will tell and I sincerely hope that I'm wrong about these clips. The consequences arent great if my pessism is correct
     
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  28. Localtiler

    Localtiler Professional Tiler Top Contributor

    Location:
    Yorkshire
    There just there to help that final part of tiling. If you can't tile these aren't tiling skills in a box!
     
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  29. AOS TIling

    AOS TIling Active Member

    Location:
    London
    Thanks for the reply. I laid 40 sq/m of wood effect porcelain 1200 x 200 this week. Absolutely flat as a pancake. I'd defy anyone to find fault. Work undertaken for a landscape gargener who knew his levels. He not only commented positively on the work but tipped me like never before. So, trust me, she was spot on.
    What I fail to understand is, why would I use clips. Why add costs to the job?

    Sorry no pics as I'm back in a fortnight to do backsplash so didn't take any yesterday
     
  30. Localtiler

    Localtiler Professional Tiler Top Contributor

    Location:
    Yorkshire
    IMG_3660.JPG

    I have also done many plank jobs with no clips, and no lips, but that was with planks that are not bowed, as I'm sure your tiles weren't bowed either other wise you would have lips! Clips can bend bowed planks back to straight to remove lips. Also, for large format tiles, there is essential. Have you not used them before ?
     
  31. AOS TIling

    AOS TIling Active Member

    Location:
    London
    Correct, I worked with quality tiles - no bowing. Your answer on the bowed plank effect makes sense. It's the first time anyone has offered me a reasonable explanation as to why clips might be used. On the few occasions that I have asked, I've been shouted down. If you are referring to large, large format - no it's not a markert I have any intention entering - not for me, I've done my time. But I can understand their uses there. Mostly Victorian work for me over the last few years. But back to my comments about the clips. I see them sitting in prominent retail positions at the likes of CTD and I do fear the impact they may have on the trade. Plus there's the solid bed fixing issue on floors but that's another story. One prominent retailer said to me - 'yep, you are right to be worried about solid bed fixing but why should I care' - he was loaded with booze at the time
     
  32. Localtiler

    Localtiler Professional Tiler Top Contributor

    Location:
    Yorkshire
    Pulling tiles up leaving voids? That is another myth
     
  33. impish

    impish Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler Top Contributor

    Location:
    Lancashire
    Andrew, you and me have had this discussion since the lash clips first appeared many years ago and like you I was not sold on them one bit. The early ones from Genesis and QED had curved based which did indeed pull the tiles up out of the adhesive.
    I had a dabble and then went back to thinking they were diy trickery, enabling a great looking job with spot fixing.
    Role on a few years and I had 300sqm of extremely expensive porcelain and a customer who insisted on absolute perfection and a very tight turnaround.
    I tried RLS clips and believe me, after a few hours finding my feet with them (and some constructive insults from Antonio) I nailed it.
    They saved me a heap of time, stress and mess lifting tiles to re-bed.
    I checked the floor was ok, back-skimmed the tiles as usual and used a 12mm notch with wet-ish adhesive. No coverage issues (RLS have flat backs) and a 100% perfect job.
    Now I don't use them on every floor, but there are times when they are very useful and speed the job up.
    As for tile quality, I had some £75 a metre mandarin stone planks - 1600x250, in January. For that money I expect flat tiles but these were bowed. Without the clips, I wouldn't have managed any more than a 200mm overlap.

    I admit the risk remains;
    Cons: they can allow idiots to achieve a good looking job.
    Pros: they can allow pros to achieve more in less time.
     
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  34. impish

    impish Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler Top Contributor

    Location:
    Lancashire
    I should add: last month I fitted 1200x800 porcel-thin on walls and floor.
    I found the clips to be absolutely essential.
    Course, we could argue that perfect floors and perfect walls would negate the need for clips, but 2 main things here:
    1) We never get perfect substrates.
    2) Even when we do (because we prepare them) the adhesive as it cures can pull and push the levels on the large-format thin porcelain.
     
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  35. Andystiletiling

    Andystiletiling Professional Tiler

    Location:
    Burnley
    The pool surround I've just finished would be absolutely impossible to achieve a perfect finish without clips, managed a three way fall without envelope cuts using 1200x200 planks, it literally would have been impossible without them...
     

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