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Discuss Failed ceramic tiles || kitchen || farm house in the Tiling Forum area at TilersForums.co.uk.

  1. Julian 'Farmer' Bonsall

    Julian 'Farmer' Bonsall [Experienced DIY] Top Contributor

    Location:
    Cheshire
    Hello

    The farmhouse kitchen walls are tiled with 6"x6" ceramic tiles. I would estimate this was done approx. 30 years ago.

    The wall substrate is sand and cement.

    One wall bounds the living area which has an aga - this is installed on the opposite side of the kitchen wall. This wall seems to have greater problems than the others.

    The problems are that the tiles have started to lift and the substrate behind looks quite porous.

    Some have been refixed using a two part instant adhesive.

    What would be the likely remedy to fixing new tiles ?
     
  2. Tom Astley

    Tom Astley Professional Tiler

    Location:
    Manchester
    Take them off to see if the substrate is causing any issues. Subsidence or movement on solid walls is a concern.
     
  3. callatiler

    callatiler Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    Aberdeen
    Could be the heat from the aga is taking all moisture out of wall and turning everything to dust. Is the wall excessively hot?
     
  4. whitebeam

    whitebeam Moderator Staff Member Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner

    Location:
    Hertfordshire
    As callatiler Could have been fixed to lime mortar which drying out due to heat
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Julian 'Farmer' Bonsall

    Julian 'Farmer' Bonsall [Experienced DIY] Top Contributor

    Location:
    Cheshire
    The mortar is a sand cement mix.
    Yes it's quite powder like (if that's a pair of words), almost looks like that oasis material for plants (but not green obviously).
    I can rule out subsidence I think.

    As for how hot - never tried to measure it but the tile surface is always warm to touch.

    The render is throughout all of the ground floor and related to damp issues. The house is close to 450 years old.

    I am just unsure what best to do to remedy.
     
  6. callatiler

    callatiler Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    Aberdeen
    Think the heat from aga on other side of wall is your problem, if it was me I would strip tiles off the affected area and the sand and cement screed. Then either use fire retardant (pink plasterboard) or Hardie tile backer boards and pack out till flush with the original sand and cement screed, check plumb then mechanical fix boards also. That will give you a fixed solid bed for new tiles.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. Julian 'Farmer' Bonsall

    Julian 'Farmer' Bonsall [Experienced DIY] Top Contributor

    Location:
    Cheshire
    Thanks they sound good ideas. The hardibacker looks good from a moisture aspect and also thermal.
    Anything needed for the joints?
    Is fixing normally screws ?
     
  8. callatiler

    callatiler Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    Aberdeen
    Web scrim tape for joints and adhesive, screws and plugs for fixing boards
     
  9. Julian 'Farmer' Bonsall

    Julian 'Farmer' Bonsall [Experienced DIY] Top Contributor

    Location:
    Cheshire
    Would my thinking be right that the hardibacker would not stop moisture penetrating to the tile adhesive from the wall ?
     
  10. Julian 'Farmer' Bonsall

    Julian 'Farmer' Bonsall [Experienced DIY] Top Contributor

    Location:
    Cheshire
    My concern is that the cement render was installed (as I understand it - long time ago) due to damp issues.
    Will the hardibacker stop the moisture and all the chemicals that come with it reaching the adhesive?
     
  11. Julian 'Farmer' Bonsall

    Julian 'Farmer' Bonsall [Experienced DIY] Top Contributor

    Location:
    Cheshire
    Feedback from HardieBacker
    My concerns over the permeability of the boards.
    1. The walls are cement rendered to resist damp. One wall shares a chimney with an aga the otherwise. After 20 years or so the tiles are unstuck. I had thought of rendering again and using a liquid solution as used in wet rooms. Some people suggested various boards but I couldn't spot any that did not allow moisture to pass through them.


    2. HardieBackerTF Official Sponsor

      Hi Julian

      As you mention boards such as ours will absorb water and moisture so for this particular application HardieBacker may not be suitable alone.

      You could look to install the board but then use a tanking kit over the top to provide a waterproof barrier perhaps?
     
  12. pjc

    pjc Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler

    Location:
    high wycombe
    Cement based adhesive will set and have no problems under water. So remove the soft render and refix it with adhesive and cement board if needed. Won't solve the damp but that' a diffrent is issue.
     
  13. Julian 'Farmer' Bonsall

    Julian 'Farmer' Bonsall [Experienced DIY] Top Contributor

    Location:
    Cheshire
    Hi PJC

    I read with some interest the thread related to ceramic tile moisture absorption. The point of the test as I can understand was to show that when the adhesive gets wet that was a bad thing? I appreciate normally (in a shower) One would expect it to get wet from the front face of the tile rather than the otherway around.

    I really should take some photos but in this case the render is a mixture of a powder and a material a little like that oasis stuff used for flowers. Bit hard to tell what state the adhesive is in.

    My original plan was to do as you suggest - cement board, adhesive and back to new. But having read the moisture absorption post it triggered this concern.

    Thank you for your response - I think I will get on with it. Been a mess for years - plenty stuck back on with nonails type material.
     
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