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Al875319

Hi all,

I've just had 4m2 of white bevelled metro tiles done in my kitchen by a guy who according to reviews is always really neat, tidy etc.

After a day and a half of work, he has finished and left. Looking from afar, it looks OK but looking up close it is anything but neat and tidy and has left my pregnant wife very upset and not wanting to go in the kitchen she's been dreaming of for the last 5 years.

Would some of you mind giving me a view on how good /bad it is and how we can rectify it? We haven't paid yet but aside from the bits he just hasn't bothered to grout or silicone, I'm not convinced he has the ability to do it better.

Specific issues other than general untidyness and leaving gunk everywhere including our new sink and tap are:

- Some gaps are bigger than others
- Some bits are just missing grout.
- The internal corners look terrible.
- Where he has put to trim on, some of the tiles are gouged on the face, or the tiles don't seem to be butted against it neatly.
- Some of the grout has white/beige marks coming through that won't come off
- Cuts around the extractor are really wonky and have big gaps
- Cuts around the cupboards have massive gaps which he's just siliconed
- One tile is covered in gouges

Any help would be massively appreciated so my wife doesn't get even more stressed.

Thank you in advance.

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macten

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It all needs stripping out and re doing.
Think you're supposed to give the so called 'tiler' the chance to rectify or he could, in theory, take you to court for non payment.
 
OP
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Waluigi

Did you pay him?

If so, why?

Unfortunately there are some people in this game who don’t have the right attention to detail.

These things are often worked to at a price, usually a bloody low price.

The problem with tiling is that if it’s that bad on the surface, god knows what corners he has cut beneath the surface.

I would do everything in your power to get it sorted. There’s no way I’d even accept the way it was set out let alone the lash up with the rest of it.

Send him the pictures, nobody with an iota of self respect can deny that the work is dreadful.

Be polite though,

Your best option would be some money back and get a proper professional in.
 
OP
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Al875319

I haven't paid yet although he has just sent the invoice for £400 exc. tiles.

I am very reluctant to get him back to rectify, particularly given that since of this was already his second attempt when I'd pointed out it had gone wrong i.e. gaps around the extractor were originally 4mm on one side and about 9mm on the other where it was cut wrong.

Thanks for all your reassurance. It's the first time I've had tiling done so I wanted to make sure I didn't have unrealistic expectations, although I was certain this wasn't even close to being right.
 
OP
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Spare Tool

Totally unacceptable from start to finish... Moving on thankfully you haven't paid but as you must give him the chance to put things right think you need to point every fault out and see what his reaction is, some careful discussion will be needed when he returns for payment and hopefully he will admit defeat and walk away and not attempt any remedial work, which would take longer than stripping out and starting again....
More than likely he will have used tubbed adhesive which if only done yesterday will still not be properly dry so stripping the lot off would only take an hour and for the price of metros nowerdays another 4sqm and a couple of trims won't break the bank.
 
OP
A

Al875319

Totally unacceptable from start to finish... Moving on thankfully you haven't paid but as you must give him the chance to put things right think you need to point every fault out and see what his reaction is, some careful discussion will be needed when he returns for payment and hopefully he will admit defeat and walk away and not attempt any remedial work, which would take longer than stripping out and starting again....
More than likely he will have used tubbed adhesive which if only done yesterday will still not be properly dry so stripping the lot off would only take an hour and for the price of metros nowerdays another 4sqm and a couple of trims won't break the bank.
Thanks that's really helpful. He used Bal Blue Star but didn't see whether he mixed it up or not as I was working. How long until the tubed adhesive sets and is too hard to remove? I don't want to wait for him to come back if he can't make it to come and look for a few days if it turns out it will be set solid and be more difficult. Thanks
 
OP
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Spare Tool

Thanks that's really helpful. He used Bal Blue Star but didn't see whether he mixed it up or not as I was working. How long until the tubed adhesive sets and is too hard to remove? I don't want to wait for him to come back if he can't make it to come and look for a few days if it turns out it will be set solid and be more difficult. Thanks
In theory now its grouted he's put the lid back on the tub so will be ok for a few days, even if if has set wetting it with a sponge and scrapping it off won't take too long..
 
OP
D

Dumbo

Dont understand why he didn't finish at full tile height once he got past wall cabinets . They will probably come off easy at the moment but if you do that you will probably have to suck up the £ 400 for reasons stated above .
 
OP
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Al875319

Also try and keep photos, emails etc for proof just in case it goes to court.
Try the thread on here find a tiler to get someone to do a perfect job for you
Yes I will do. I've got about 30 of individual issues so it's hard for him to argue .
 
OP
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Al875319

In theory now its grouted he's put the lid back on the tub so will be ok for a few days, even if if has set wetting it with a sponge and scrapping it off won't take too long..
Thank you. That's reassuring although some joints have no grout anyway. I'm sure it won't be too hard to remove them.
 
OP
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Al875319

Thank you all for the really helpful advice I've spoken to Citizen's Advice this morning just for a bit of signposting to useful legislation and they've suggested as he didn't provide any terms and conditions, the cooling off period for a distance/off premises sale will be a year and 14 days, and I can cancel the contract for poor performance under the Consumer Contract Regulations 2013. He has also suggested I can claim compensation for new tiles, as I bought those myself, and for the time to remove his work and make good ready to retile as a minor breach of contract under the I'm guessing 1 day x his day rate would be reasonable in that instance. I will let you all know how it goes.
 
OP
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Dumbo

Thank you all for the really helpful advice I've spoken to Citizen's Advice this morning just for a bit of signposting to useful legislation and they've suggested as he didn't provide any terms and conditions, the cooling off period for a distance/off premises sale will be a year and 14 days, and I can cancel the contract for poor performance under the Consumer Contract Regulations 2013. He has also suggested I can claim compensation for new tiles, as I bought those myself, and for the time to remove his work and make good ready to retile as a minor breach of contract under the I'm guessing 1 day x his day rate would be reasonable in that instance. I will let you all know how it goes.
So are you saying he doesn't get the right to correct his own work .
 
OP
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Al875319

That was their advice as of this morning. If I had already paid, I should be asking for a refund but as I haven't, I should be stating that I am terminating the contract within the cancellation period due to his poor workmanship and therefore payment will not be forthcoming. I'd not really considered whether or not it was a distance sale, but they assure me that it is and therefore I have a cancellation period which is extended as a consequence of him not providing a contract.

On a personal note, I also don't believe he has even the remotest likelihood of starting the job again from scratch and achieving the correct standard, noting the comments on here from everyone else. I would be more than happy in principle for a tradesmen to correct his own errors but I would expect those to be one or two snags, not fundamentally doing it wrong to start with.
 
OP
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Dumbo

I appreciate what you are saying regarding be able to work to a certain standard . But the advice you have been given is a new one to me and probably most people here also cancelling the contract after completion (although completed badly )doesn't seem to sit right.
 
OP
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Al875319

I appreciate what you are saying regarding be able to work to a certain standard . But the advice you have been given is a new one to me and probably most people here also cancelling the contract after completion (although completed badly )doesn't seem to sit right.
I completely understand that point of view and certainly agree that it should not be exploited. However, I have been advised that it is my best legal option to extract myself from the situation and to not require me to legally make any payments for what you have all stated is terrible work that needs redoing. I therefore don't think it is unreasonable for me to use it in this instance as I would not wish to pay anything for the work and do not see why I should have to. If it was rectifiable, I would be open to him doing so or making an appropriate adjustment to the invoice but you have all said it isn't fixable.

I would also draw a moral distinction between a professional who has made an accidental mistake in which case I wouldn't dream of following this route and someone who has knowingly done a bad job or knowingly not gained adequate experience or training to carry out such jobs, noting he is more than willing to charge me the full amount knowing he didn't finish lots of areas and those that he did finish are not correct.
 
OP
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Dumbo

Dont get me wrong i dont think you should pay but i think you should get a second opinion on the process of not paying after it wouldn't be the first time cab have given bad advice
 
OP
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On one

Just a point regarding ''The cooling off period'' ''Distance selling regulations'' etc etc....
You go to a customers house,look at the job,go away work out a price.Telephone the customer the next day,tell him(or her) it will be xxxx amount of money but can't do it for so many weeks. The customer says he needs it done quicker than xx amount of weeks,you agree to help him(or her) out(We've all done it)
So how doe's that sit with the ''cooling off period'' Has the customer voided their rights?
 
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If he's used a tubbed adhesive they will probably come off fairly easily and you may be able to re-use a lot of them after they've been cleaned up (leave them to soak in hot water them scrape the adhesive off the backs).
You MUST give him the opportunity to come back and put it right within a reasonable time
 
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I'd tell him nicely but firmly that the workmanship is too poor to leave the way it is, that you want it redone properly and that the tiles need to be taken off immediately before the adhesive fully sets and possibly damages the substrate. If he refuses then get those tiles off: you have detailed photographic evidence of his work so the poor quality can't be denied and you are running out of time. Withholding payment isn't a good idea though, you must try to resolve this with him before refusing to give him any money (perhaps he could pay for someone else to rectify the job and receive the difference).
Unfortunately most good tilers are booked up in advance for quite a while (I've a year waiting time) but the difference is well worth your patience. Beware anyone who can start immediately without a very good reason and always ask to see examples of his/her work. I wish you all the best.
 
OP
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Al875319

Just as an update for everyone who had kindly helped with their advice...

The original "tiler" came out again and reckoned there were a few "snagging" issues but he could fix them and it wouldn't all need removing. He accepted he could have laid out a few bits better and was generally apologetic, but couldn't see that a lot of the things were really issues (e.g. wonky uneven could be fixed by "scraping it out with a nail" ).

I unsurprisingly wasn't interested or convinced, even though he assured me that he would would do whatever he needed to make it look good. We eventually agreed that we would just both walk away with no payment.

Happily @Andy Allen happened to have two free days due to another job not being ready for him and he has managed to sort it all out wonderfully. What a difference! My wife is now over the moon with her kitchen.

The one good thing about the guy doing it badly is that, despite being up for a week, Andy managed to get most of the tiles off just by flicking them with a screwdriver as the adhesive still hadn't really set and crumbled under a bit of finger pressure. The guy also hadn't prepped at all so the underlying paint was coming off in sheets like paper.

Thanks again to you all for your advice and recommending Andy!
 

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