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Discuss Advice, losing faith in tiles.. in the Tiling Forum area at TilersForums.co.uk.

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  1. Richard Nessbert

    Richard Nessbert Active Member

    Location:
    Newporr
    Hi all,

    Sorry if this is the wrong place to post this, but I'm really stuck with what direction to go next.

    To cut a long story short, we moved in to a new build house 8 years ago. When we purchased the house, we knew the ground floor tiles needed to be replaced as the tiles had not stuck to the floor.
    Before the second lot of tiles where laid, we had various tilers and even the area director for mapei come and look. However after a year the tiles started to come up again, in the main walkway. We just lives with them that way, until now. We have just had an extension so the ground floor needs to be relaid again. The problem we have is no tiler seems to be able to identify what the problem is and therefore won't guarantee their work.

    What I know... The floor is a Liquid self leveling screed not the cement type and we have a water based underfloor hearing system throughout the ground floor.

    When the floor was tiled the second time, I was told he bonded the floor and used Mapei Flexible adhesive..we paid him £30sm to lay it as he seemed highly recommended.

    Now... We believed for a longtime the problem the second time was not the adhesive or way it was laid, but the choice of tiles. We went with Quartz, as no one mentioned the lack of suitability to underfloor heating. However I have just taken one tile up and none of the adhesive has stuck to the floor.. Its all on the tile, which makes me think the tile wasn't the problem.

    I have read hundreds of articles and have multiple tilers look, but they all give different answers and none say they are 100% sure.

    So the question to the faithful here is, has anyone come across this before and can anything be done to stop it happening in the future.

    I have attached some photos to help.

    Also I'm in newport South Wales if anyone wants to take the job on.. Its around 40sm area.

    Thanks for any advice

    IMG_20180915_214626.jpg IMG_20180915_214710.jpg IMG_20180915_214745.jpg IMG_20180915_214736.jpg IMG_20180915_214751.jpg IMG_20180915_214632.jpg
     
  2. Richard Nessbert

    Richard Nessbert Active Member

    Location:
    Newporr
    Just to confirm photo 5 of the adhesive on the floor, is from a different part of the kitchen where I lifted another tile.. Maybe no underfloor heating there?
     
  3. pdc

    pdc Professional Tiler

    Quite possibly laitence (surface crust) not removed from the screed.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  4. hmtiling

    hmtiling Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner

    Location:
    Isle of Wight
    If it's not a cement based screed then it's a calcium sulphate screed. They need to be treated properly ie sanded primed and gypsum adhesive or barrier primed. Quartz is not a good idea with underfloor heating. Make sure whoever does it next preps it properly and uses correct materials. Good luck
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  5. Richard Nessbert

    Richard Nessbert Active Member

    Location:
    Newporr
    Thanks Hm, I mentioned the sanding to the tiles when they came to price and I just got blank looks, they did mention priming the floor though. I guess sanding the whole area adds considerable time to the job. Would you stay this is still needed even on an 8 year old floor?

    Thanks again
    Rich
     
  6. Waluigi

    Waluigi Professional Tiler Top Contributor

    Location:
    UK
    Sounds like this time you need a professional. The substrate should’ve really been flagged by someone and as said, sanded back before tiling. It’s basic knowledge for a Tiler.
     
  7. Andy Allen

    Andy Allen Metro specialist & forum entertainer! Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    Gloucester
    Also how was the UFH turned on for the first time after tiling..
     
  8. Muff Tiler

    Muff Tiler Active Member

    Location:
    Essex
    Can't use cement based adhesive directly on those floors.
     
  9. Richard Nessbert

    Richard Nessbert Active Member

    Location:
    Newporr
    Thanks for all the replies, in summary there is no reason tiles wouldn't stay down on this floor, if the tiler used the correct adhesive
     
  10. Richard Nessbert

    Richard Nessbert Active Member

    Location:
    Newporr
    I basically have until Wednesday to cancel the tile order and switch to engineered oak flooring.
    If anyone is local to Newport and is confident they could get this done, please let me know ASAP
     
  11. pdc

    pdc Professional Tiler

    What type of tile have you ordered? Porcelain would be by far the best choice.
    I would also say that the cost of laying tiles will be more expensive than timber due to the preparation needed to the screed before you start laying tiles.
     
  12. macten

    macten Professional Tiler

    Location:
    Nottingham
    Provided the laitance is removed first!
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. Richard Nessbert

    Richard Nessbert Active Member

    Location:
    Newporr
    Yeah, we ordered a Porcelain tile, they are a board shape approx 1m long and 20cm width. Made in Spain.. That's about all I know about them. The supplier said 100% suitable for UFH.

    How can I ensure the tiler removes the laitance.. Honestly I've had 5 tilers here now and not one has mentioned sanding the floor.

    Is the sanding somthing I could do?
     
  14. Localtiler

    Localtiler Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    Yorkshire
    As the others have said it sounds like the wrong adhesive has been used which is pretty bad if mapei have been and seen it and didn't make a point of that ? The laitance may have come off with the tiles either the first or second time, I would need to see some better photos of the surface of the screed to see that. There could also be contamination from the reaction between cement adhesive and gypsum floor. but either way if it is anhydrite it needs tiling idealy with a gypsum based adhesive. If none of the tilers have mentioned this sort of stuff then don't use them. Isn't @Adey1980@Adey1980 in your area ?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Localtiler

    Localtiler Trusted Advisor Professional Tiler JOTM Winner Top Contributor

    Location:
    Yorkshire
    Just to add, sanding that screen now this far on will be a task it will be as immensely hard. I have sanded one recently that had been down years and even my diamond grinder barely touched it
     
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