Avoid ..............at all cost - Tile Advice

Discuss Avoid ..............at all cost in the Canada area at TilersForums. The USA and UK Tiling Forum (Also now Aus, Canada, ROI, and more)

steveaykroyd

steveaykroyd

TF
Reaction score
0
As pictured we have had a bad experience with Al murad tiles. Ceramic tiles fixed with ultra white flexible adhesive(powder) the tiles have literally pulled apart has they have dried out!! The staff at the Morley branch Leeds also gave the customer the same tile to use on the floor with ufh ! We advised the customer to return these for a porcelain tile to suit ufh. The customer has complained we complained to no avail. Poor customer service. Extortionate prices. Un qualified staff It won't ever happen again. All we got was a sweet FA

View attachment IMG_20190411_155527.jpg View attachment IMG_20190412_111326.jpg View attachment IMG_20190412_094224.jpg View attachment IMG_20190412_094226.jpg
 
W

WetSaw

From the pictures it looks more like poor substrate preparation and fixing method.
Have you got a picture of the back of one of the tiles that has come off?

You're right about the suitability of ceramic tiles on the floor but for me that would be the case even without UFH.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
T

Time's Ran Out

Ok - I’ve taken the name of the tile supplier out of the thread title!
It could be deemed slanderous and is based on the opinion of the OP.
The supplier is named in the body of the first post for reference.
If I’am wrong Marc can reinstate it later.
 
T

Time's Ran Out

As for my opinion - once tiles are fixed it’s not the responsibility of the supplier but the manufacturer. They should however get a representative to visit.
I’d agree with @pdc there’s more going on behind the tiles to affect the finished appearance.
 
T

Tile Shop

Firstly, some clarification. I have no issue with ceramics on a floor, even with underfloor heating. There are different classes of ceramic based on water absorption and density, BIIa and BIIb which I would class as flooring grade. Fine for most internal domestic applications if the floor is correctly prepped and the tiles are properly fitted. Then there's BIII which are the lower density ceramics, which should be confined to walls only..... (Guess what classification BCT's own made ceramic floor tiles were? :D)

Was the adhesive rapid-set? To me, this screams of someone going into the supplier, shouting "this has all gone wrong and if you don't help me I'm going to post bad feedback aaallllllll over the internet". If there was a genuine fault with the tile, no respected TTA member, or any supplier for that matter, even Al Murad would turn you away without getting the manufacturer involved, so lets look at why it may have happened first. They are innocent until proven guilty and it will take far more information in the prep (if there was any o_O) and fixing for me to change my opinion.
 
W

WetSaw

My concerns with ceramic tiles on floors are that the vast majority have a relatively fragile glaze and soft biscuit. Also the cost of higher quality ceramic puts you in to the porcelain price range so I know what I'd choose.
 
T

Tile Shop

A more fragile glaze on ceramic is to some extent, a myth. One that many people just take for granted because they only concentrate on the overall strength of porcelain compared to ceramic.

You can check the wearing grade to identify how good the glaze is. For example, in heavy foot traffic, on one hand, a Grade 4 flooring class ceramic would still outperform a Grade 3 porcelain in terms of surface abrasion. But the slightly softer biscuit just means its more critical to fix correctly without voids, and they "maybe" more being susceptible to substrate movement due to the lower density which with the correct prep, shouldn't be a factor. They say a BIII ceramic can be used on a floor if the wearing grade is high enough, but personally, I have trust issues with that based on the numerous issues I've seen with BCT and some of the older Johnsons ceramic floor tiles... They are proper diva's and need everything to be perfect to ensure there is no problem.

Just my opinion, but the only time I would only suggest porcelain over ceramic based on materials alone, is for external use.
 
T

Time's Ran Out

For me it’s down to absorbtion.
From the side of the joint causing framing to red wine stains on the surface.
As for surface wear the edges chip as you get them out of the box so in 3 months you’ll be back doing repairs, hence it’s not worth the effort/risk with alternate tiles available.
Not only would I not sell ceramics for floors, but I refuse to fix them. Customers don’t know as they just like the pattern, it’s up to the professional installer to make the decision.
 
W

WetSaw

I'm sure you're right but the problem is Paul that 99% of the population ( me included ) aren't anal enough to study the box to see if it's this grade or that. Unless there's a specific reason, anti slip, exterior etc as long as the batch numbers match that's about it for me.

As far as the OP goes, from the pictures, it seems prep and fixing methods are a contributing factor.
 
T

Tile Shop

timeless john said:
For me it’s down to absorbtion.
From the side of the joint causing framing to red wine stains on the surface.
As for surface wear the edges chip as you get them out of the box so in 3 months you’ll be back doing repairs, hence it’s not worth the effort/risk with alternate tiles available.
Not only would I not sell ceramics for floors, but I refuse to fix them. Customers don’t know as they just like the pattern, it’s up to the professional installer to make the decision.
Click to expand...

I'm 50/50 with that opinion and to be fair, red wine can stain anything it comes into contact with if left to sit there for long enough. Even micro-textured glazed porcelain and sealed polished porcelain. Ceramics are not exclusive. Yes, the installer can make a judgement call, but would have thought it would be dependant on the end usage rather than a flat-out "no I ain't doing it". That's like saying that any ceramic floor tile ever made by any manufacturer, regardless of class is not fit for purpose, which is incorrect.

But each to their own opinion and if you have seen horrific problems, understandable you'd avoid them, but not all ceramics are the same. There are some very good ones about, which if fitted correctly would out-live all of us. (useless bit of information, but although a few have taken a violent jolting, some of the ceramic tiles used in the Turkish Baths on the Titanic are still intact in the wreckage, despite sinking 107 years ago... guess they don't make 'em or fix 'em like they used to :) google it. Really interesting pictures)

Also agree that no-one checks the boxes for class, but 99% of the time, the information is there, and if it's not, the supplier will know or be able to find out. The likes of CTD or dare I say, Al Murad will correctly advise the use for which a tile is suitable, and if they say floor, take their word for it, they're not in the business of lying..... Well, except maybe in the OP's case of course.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Reply to Avoid ..............at all cost in the Canada area at TilersForums.com

Or checkout our tile courses and training forum or the Tile Blog / Latest Blog Posts

This website is hosted and managed by www.untoldmedia.co.uk. Creating content since 2001.
Tile Contractor Forum. The useful tile contractor website.

Replies you've not seen

Share This Page

New Tiling Questions

UK Tiling Forum Stats

Threads
67,337
Messages
881,118
Members
9,529
Latest member
Finias Coroama
Top
✖
AdBlock Detected

We get it, advertisements are annoying!

Sure, ad-blocking software does a great job at blocking ads, but it also blocks useful features of our website. For the best site experience please disable your AdBlocker.

I've Disabled AdBlock    No Thanks