Help we need your opinion on what other drill sizes you need.

We have been asked to produce a new core set for one of our larger clients but to get that many diamond cores into one pack we will have to swap from clam shells to a case. In the mockup unit below there are TWELVE diamond cores and the price point looks to be about £139.99 for the complete set.


£139.99 for twelve drills. But have they got it right?

But I am not convinced their buyers have got it right. This is where I need your help. What sizes do YOU think will be popular?

Starting from our main pack below:


£49.99 = SEVEN drills in five standard sizes. £7.15 per drill.

With the above as a starting point I thought the sizes you guys would need to ADD would be

1) 18mm - Reason - Extra room on radiator pipes
2) 25mm - Reason - Correct size for 22mm bath pipes
3) 35mm - Reason - Monoblock taps for sinks
4) 45mm - Reason - Larger bath waste of 40mm internal diameter pipe
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Plus
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5) 6mm x 2 (Total box would have 4x6mm) Reason - Main holes are the rawl plugs
6) 8mm x 2 As above.

Total extra number of cores in the pack. 7+8 = 15 cores.

Retail Price Point: From £99 ro £150


Does this seem like value for money? Are my sizes correct? Have I missed anything?



All bathrooms need holes. Would a 15 core set, with the diamond cores set out in a case be popular? Or are we missing a trick.

4 x 6mm | 4 x 8mm | 1 x 16mm, 18mm, 25mm, 30mm, 35mm, 40mm, 45mm

Your thoughts.. PLEASE !

one for a toilet waste would be handy Richard about 110mm I think mine is.

Whew well I understand the need. Its a big beast tho !!



if we put it in the pack the case would have to RRP at about £149.99 with it in.

richard my honest opinion is the sizes you have are fine,but i dont own your drills myself but if your using ceramics/porcelain then a set of parrot nips will make the hole the right size if needed.

Myself ,i wouldnt pay £100-£150 for a set of drill bits,unless they were really needed.

£50 i would and have paid and when i need a new set of core bits i will buy yours as i have seen them in action and they do appear to be far better than the ones i have.

Myself ,i wouldnt pay £100-£150 for a set of drill bits,unless they were really needed.

Thanks for that. The dilema we have faced in the past is that to own a full "set" of drills from Armeg, Macrist, Rubi, they come in at about £300.

In our range we only have one diamond core "Kit" and yet at £50 the genuine feedback from customer to retailers has been at that price is "too CHEAP". An example is when we attended INSTALLER LIVE trade show (Corgi & Gas Safe) The gas plumbers shyed away from a £50 kit because - at that cheap price its bound not to work.

So the thinking is that the range MUST expand - And it must go UP IN PRICE. Maybe we offer 3 or 4 different kits. Perhaps we have a "Plumbers kit" an "Electricians Kit" a "Tilers Kit". But the problem is the pipework (in my opinion) is the same whatever trade you are in. Perhaps we need a £300 kit. A £200 kit. A £100 kit and a £49.99 entry level pack which would still be the bathroom fitters kit. The question then becomes do the sizes in the BFKMX form part of these other kits or do we make them with other core sizes?

All feedback is genuinely sought. I have heard that people wont pay hundreds for kits but the weight of evidence does seem to support a demand for bigger budgets. The only real way to test the market is to supply the goods but I want to get the sizes and prices right before forking out all the set up costs for cutting out the foam to the exact sizes. I dont want to put out an "all in one" case or the "dream selection" only to find I missed a critical size...

Oh and the reason I put the 115mm in above (not the 110mm) is because I ALWAYS try to persude buyers to go that 5mm extra. At 4" the 110mm is the correct core for the large waste BUT its common for most extract fans to be about 115mm. By suggesting the 115 it does two jobs instead of one.

I find your standard bathroom set suffices, 18mm dos'nt work for me because I have to cut a hole with pushfit stop on copper pipes

Personally I don't use the 6mm, If needed I drill the tile with the 8mm and then a 6mm masonry drill
If you include a 115mm bit you will then need a drill stand!

Originally Posted by whitebeam

I find your standard bathroom set suffices, 18mm dos'nt work for me because I have to cut a hole with pushfit stop on copper pipes

Yep, I hate that!! I like it when plumbers solder the blanks on tho'

i needed a 14mm the other day, to fit a hand wash basin in clockroom, most basin fitting kits use M14.

Can't remember the last time I saw a copper stop

dont use 6mm either but use a 10 or 12 when fitting toilet pans. (clearance through the tile, screws are sometimes on an angle)

Richard, going against the grain a bit here. But I wouldn't change your model at all. For those that don't want a kit 'cheap', don't change your existing model. That model is for the happy customers that grew your business over the years. What you want to do is introduce a 'kit' for a plumber that knocked your existing kit back at that trade show, and give them something perhaps between your existing product and the product they would be expected to buy (you'll need to ask them what that is, and feel free to use the plumbers forum, they're sound lads there).

I'm just reading Alan Sugar's autobiography and his whole approach was to do what the "big boys" do, but cheaper, and quicker. Obviously it's not a the same, computers were growing quickly back then. He met a different market level at first but once demand was high enough big boys had to take his stock. You have a demand here by the plumbers, but they're not asking for the same product (which I'm pleased to say you do at a very decent price - with the after sales and customer service to fully back it [and it's all UK-based and I personally love that more so]), they're asking for one that's what they're used to.

So give them it. But ask them what they want. Our tilers want your gear in the main, mz30 being a minority (no offence) which is fine, but perhaps he'll buy the plumbers version?

Keep your model that's working, and see if you can make what the plumbers want to work?

All just feedback. And I hope I'm on the right wave length.

25mm is a good size as its the right size for 1/2 BSP thread for shower head, body jets etc so id definitely have that in there.

who does your foam inserts?

Originally Posted by 365drills

Whew well I understand the need. Its a big beast tho !!



if we put it in the pack the case would have to RRP at about £149.99 with it in.

Aaah, I didn't realise that you did one already mate, I'll be needing another one before much longer so I'll get an order in with you for one

Keep your model that's working, and see if you can make what the plumbers want to work?

I think your point is right. In effect you are saying we should keep the basic Bathroom Fitters Kit then supplement what we have already by creating NEW kits.

The demand for more expensive kits seems to be coming from plumbers not tilers so I will pop over to the plumbers forum to ask what they use (size wise).
It's that market where we may need to see a "case" rather than a "clam-shell" because of the weight of the contents.

hi rich

as dan said, keep the basic bathroom kit that has always worked for the masses (if it aint broke etc)

but ... release the '365 pro series pipe kit'... New for 2011 ??

then you can vamp the kit up to include any size for any sitution, which in itself will appeal to the plumbers?

ed

but ... release the '365 pro series pipe kit'... New for 2011 ??

I am going to have to start dreaming up names now!

Over the time i have often bought the bathroom pack and am just looking at the drill pieces i have left and i have 6mm and 8mm unused bits building up.
Would work for me if you just got one 8mm no 6mm and an extra 30mm or a differant size for the loss of two 6mm and one 8 mm

richard what i have found with the plastic template is that it eats into the template no matter how slow i go would a better template be the same thing but made of a more robust material or suckers you put on the tile so the guide is higher hence the diamond core not touching the plastic and not eating into it

template be the same thing but made of a more robust material

We have had comments that the diamond cores wear away the (plastic) drill plate. This was never supposed to be an issue but it seems the drills last longer that they are supposed to. In effect the lifespan of the product is too good !

So the longer you use the drill bits the more you wear the guide plate.

Couple of things about that. If anyone ever needs a spare always email me and I will send to you.
In the box kit we will add extra plates (about three plates) so hopefully there will be more life.

Finally we urge everyone to use the plate for a few seconds only to start the hole then remove it - the core doesnt need the plate to drill the hole.


Remove plate as quickly as possible when drilling


When the hole is this deep


The drill will slot into the socket


Then grab a water cooling sponge and get it underneath the diamond core drill bit
to collect all the tile dust AND to cool it