REVISED UPDATE:

THANK YOU FOR ALL THE COMMENTS BELOW: WE HAVE FINISHED THE AD AND ARE PREPARED TO RUN IT AND READY TO TEST THE MARKET.
I appreciate all of the comments and have decided to take a huge business risk (financial risk) by running the ad.

Like any gamble it can pay off both ways. The ad agencies now have this completed copy and as soon as a slot opens up we run...

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**Original Post**

Can you help? 365Drills has just finished artwork for an ad campaign which will be published in the national newspapers within the next few months.

This is the first time I have ever done an "off the page" ad and we are jumping straight into the deep end with a full page, full colour, full country coverage in The Sun newspaper.

This is the finished advert awaiting a slot

The reasons we chose The Sun is nothing to do with the marketplace but to do with numbers. 3.2 million readers. And we have gone full page, full colour so that whatever feedback we get we cant blame it on the ads being too small or being missed.

Obviously as you can imagine we are about to sink a substantial amount of money into this one day ad campaign so looking for maximum impact.

If you choose to help you will be helping a small British company with six people to survive the recession, keeping jobs here and promoting a product that gives value for money.

I want your help and without guiding you can I ask if you do decide to post anything below that it gives me feedback so that I can make changes and alter the ad. Comments like "looks ok" or "go with it" are fine but what I really need is something thought provoking.

Perhaps you know nothing about tiling, have just dropped into this forum for the first time. Or a long term tiler with years of experience and have spotted a huge mistake in the ad. Or you may even just be browsing this forum for ideas on your own bathroom and dont feel like you can comment.

I welcome comments from strangers, lurkers, regulars in fact anyone who dropped in to read this post. Your point of view is valid.

So what comments am I looking for?
1) Your ad says ...... and in my view alienates this section of society.
2) If I were a tiler working on a job and I opened the paper what puts me off buying is....
3) As a builder if I read this part of your ad I would think...
4) I would never buy this because....
5) What would make me buy this is if I read....
6) You didn't explain.... properly. I was confused about
7) You need to make the price savings bigger / smaller / change colour (why?)
8) You have the ad just right. Dont change a thing, launch it and see what happens...
9) Small comment but if you just change / alter .... then such and such would buy
10) I didnt believe your claims. You should have put... Deleted... Added...

Anything along that sort of line is going to really be helpful. As I said above the cost of these ad's are not exactly at credit crunching prices (newspapers seem to know about a recession but haven't priced to suit it !)

One final comment is that we know about typos in the ad. For example on the price is states £49.99 and in the coupon its £49.95 so I am not looking for any proof reading of the detail. I am looking for comments about everything else. And also please note that we WILL do other papers if this one works out well with the sun.
Daily Mirror
Daily Mail
Daily Express

Richard.

THE SUN ADVERT

That looks pretty good Richard. Only comment I can make is that in your User instructions, in fig 2 you say "discard" guide, to me that indicates that you "throw it away". Maybe "remove" would be a better term. Very eye catching add though and I really hope it does well for you.

Looks good mate. I haven`t needed one of your kits yet so I may be covering old ground, does the kit include full written / photo instructions, including using cordless drill at slowest speed , etc. Also could you give an indication as to how many cuts can be achieved on different tiles?

If i were looking at the advert my main thoughts would be is how long do they last. I know from reading your website that these answer are stated though.

If you are aiming at the DIY market I think it may work. Professional tradespeople may be put off as the advert looks a bit like a JML style product.
Also will the £49.99 price point be a little too high for the diyer doing a one off job?
If I didnt already know how good 365 drills are, I wouldnt buy 365 drills on the strength of the Sun advert.
As a professional tradesman I think the advert makes the drills look like a bit of a gimmick. But if its the diy market you are targeting, this advert in combination with a lower price point may well pay dividends, just depends if your profit margins would allow this!

Well done for asking for feedback, not an easy thing to do.

I would tend to agree with Frostfree that the ad does look dare I say, a little cheesy, and to my mind is too busy with too much text and not enough focus. Also you need to differentiate your product from normal (cheaper) tile drills by stressing your products suitability for hard materials which normal tile drills won't touch. The DIY market will just think that a tile drill does what it says and won't know about the difficulties of drilling porcelain.

I've got to agree with frostfree and graybags; whenever i see this type of ad in the Sun, i always think of those little booklets you get in papers/magazines with all the really cheap "handy" items. The sort of thing that looks great in the pics, but in the flesh is just cheap n nasty. I dunno, maybe i'm just cinical!?!
Like the guys have said though, depends who you're aiming at.

I think a small pointer towards feedback on here about then might give peeps a better insight into how they perform...

But i agree it dose look like a jml advert..

Maybe a little note on the ad about seeing them in action on the website,we all like to see how things actually work and how easy they are to use.

Hi Richard,

I tend to agree with the other comments - the reason being that it looks just too "busy"

I think there is also a typo, marked on attached image.

Mark

SORRY - just read your comment about typos!

Richard

You wanted the replies to be thought proviking......

Why the Sun?

Yes it has a huge circulation, but the vast majority of those people wouldn't be interested, I think because the product is too specialised, a bit like advertising fast setting tile adhesive in the Sun. Besides anyone can now walk into B&Q or Focus and buy these types of drills now.

Unless you're getting the advertising space very cheap then I personally think your money could be better spent elsewhere.

There are a huge range of builder's rags that are better placed for this. Alternitively there are still a number of homebuilding magazines. Screwfix does well in the taboids because their stock is broad enough to appeal to most (men like power tools etc). Bizarrly enough if you bundled your bits with a cheap sexy looking cordless drill you may do better!

Sun readers range from truck drivers to canteen staff to site workers to anyone who is waiting for a takeaway. Although there will be many DIYers within the Sun readership, you are focusing on one of many DIY areas in the house. Also, if you were advertising a clever little paint gadget then I would say the appeal is mainstream enough to justify the Sun. Also, most people still think you can drill through any tile with a masonery bit, they don't yet know that you can't, so they will be thinking that they can put a mirror up with a masonery bid at £1 or so, why spend £50? Most bathrooms are still tiled in ceramics and the first thing the average DIY monkey will do is try a masonery bit, and will probably succeed.

Also, the vast majority of people who do need such a drill and know that they do, will not need the £50 set containing the larger drills. They will only need the 6mm and 8mm bits, these are what you should really be pushing, explaining that larger sizes are also available. Then you can go in at £29.99 or so.

If you're going to go with the Sun, then you need Nicki or someone else who can add similar glamour to the product to feature, not some fat bloke on the bottom left hand corner holding a phone to his ear. Most blokes stop flicking though the paper when they see a good looking young lady, that's why Yes Car Credit etc were so popular in there. They had pretty ladies in whos' mouths butter wouldn't melt, and presentible families getting into their new family hatchbacks, not some fat bloke on the DSS getting into a 2 year old Vectra, although the fat bloke on the DSS was probably fairly representative of a large part of their market.

Anyway those are just my thoughts Richard. It's a good product but you will no doubt know that competition is creeping in now. Both Focus and B&Q stock similar products, though not as cheap as yours. I feel that although you were first in the market place this product is fast becoming commonplace, so the cutting edge technology you are claiming probably isn't that cutting edge anymore.

Sorry to be so 'thought provoking'.

...awaits the hate mail

hello,
i dont usually post replies however i feel quite strongly that you shouldnt go ahead with this advert and should spend your money elsewhere. I dont know exactly how much this advert is going to cost ,but can you realistically see yourself making that back plus profit?

Me personally I think its a good product and as a tiler I wouldnt look twice at the advert. So with this in mind consider what the average sun reader would think.

You are targeting a very niche market, your taget customers are :

Tilers, Plumbers or Bathroom fitters - who are already aware of products like these.

D.I.Yers that happen to be tiling there bathroom and also need to drill holes - a very niche type of d.i.yer

I hope i havnt caused offence and I truly wish you the best of luck , But im sure your advertising budget would be more well spent elsewhere.

I have a fair idea of where this add will be placed in The Sun and I know that most people (me included) fly through that section because it's just full of naff products that you can buy in a 'handy 24 month instalment plan' or it's JML. I think you're doing yourself a dis-service by putting your product next to theirs.

I don't think that many people read The Sun for news they read it for a bit of light hearted entertainment or the sport... which brings me to my next point. Screw Fix has been running a small ad on the back page for months on and off. It's distanced its self from the naff products and it also targets its ads for the trade. Far from putting the DIYer off because it's for the trade, it actually encourages them, as straight away it gives the product or company credibility. I would see how the cost for the back page compares

oh, on another note, i've been meaning to tell you that when I try to go on your site my anti-virus software (Kaspersky) goes mad. it didn't do this before, just since last week

when i go to open it, it says

Web Anti-Virus

File contains Trojan programe. You are advised to terminate the download

Trojan Program:
Trojan-downloader.JS.Agent.dmt

I like the ad. I'd remove or move the TTA logo though personally, or charge them for your spot. After all, who knows the TTA who reads the paper, they could assume the TTA are even selling the thing for all they know, should they just glance, and they will in the paper I guess.

I couldn't find a reason why - but I'd make the "Save £70" a bit smaller than the "Just 49.99" - Or perhaps I'm thinking have the 49.99 massive. Or perhaps the other way around, as we read left to right, they'll clock the 70 before the 49.99. And you don't want them to assume 'at a glance' that it's 70. Sort of thing.

And then finally, the 4th image of the demo bit, it appears the hole hasn't been drilled all the way through, and what's that behind the whole, some red step ladders or something? I'm sure you have loads more holes more clearly displayed than that lying about?

Perhaps I'm just being picky, perhaps the sun readers will be though too?

Keep us all posted on your findings mate. I'll make sure I subscribe to this thread.

Sorry richard, personally i wouldn't look twice at the advert as a professional. Perhaps you are using the wrong 'focus group'. Perhaps Sun readers (as diyers) might buy your product but I have to repeat previous posters.
The advert is too busy and I wouldn't bother with the drilling instructions until they have bought your product. To most people ,a drills a drill.

You don't mention it's british made( thats still the case isn't it)

Am I being sterotypical in saying you would be better off with a picture of one of your girls in the pilot shirts?

Do people still fill those little forms in? Reminds me of the old "big Slipper or diy hair dressing clippers' it says 'tacky' to me.

I'm a big supporter of your drills Richard and want you to do well but showed this to my wife and she said jml without knowing what it was.

Can you not do a co-op ad with your distributor to ease the cost a little?

BTW after I spoke to you I've been into quite a few tile and tool shops asking for your product knowing full well they didn't stock it, they showed me other products which were twice the price. I said no and asked if they could get me a set in, I then mentioned that I 'thought' I'd seen an ad that said it was distributed by 'Artic' which nobody had heard of i'm afraid.

Most of them told me the product would be rubbish at that price but I insisted that people had only said good things about it and pointed them to this very site. So I've planted a few seeds, you might get something back from it, you never know.

Fantastic responses and I am enjoying reading and thinking about every post. You are posting valid readable stuff.

I would like to stand back from this post. The temptation (for me) is to respond to every post and suggestion. I have decided not to address specific comments so as not to influence or guide your ideas. I want you to shoot straight from the hip.. And thats what you are doing.

HOWEVER!! A a general thing I wanted to say: We are going to test OTP advertising. Some of you point out concerns with this particular style of advertising known in the press as "off the page sales" I dont know if OTP will work or if it is right.

My wife expressed concern OTP is toot failing to sell very well via retail outlets. Its junk that cant be sold. She gave examples of mens trousers with stretchy waist bands, health pills and devices for the elderly.

Whilst I agree there is a danger of forever being labelled this catagory I am swayed by the fact the exposure and the market exposure is huge (millions) so I am still willing to test OTP. We will try the Sun purely on numbers (3.2million) to give the best market reach.

I said at the start the danger is if I respond to comments it might seem defensive or that I have taken a view. The reality is very different.. I think about each post seriously and if I agree with you it has an impact on what I do with that ad.

Again thank you for your valuable posts. They are thought provoking and I really do enjoy reading them.

Hi 365,

Do they sell 3.2 million copies, or do they have 3.2 million readers? I recently went to place an ad in the local rag and they told me they had 160,000 readers, later when i asked how many copies they printed they said 40,000. Hang on a minute!... they later explained that although they only printed 40,000 they placed free copies in places like the hospital waiting rooms that had 10,000 visitors a day and the paper might be in there for a week. I can't believe they had the cheek to add these visitors to thier figures!!

I agree it's hard to hold your tounge when you've got an idea that you feel will work but others don't, I too have had the same and I get very defensive about it, trouble is I can't help but open my mouth well done

the bit on the advert where you do the individual costing, could imo, lead people to question why your product is so cheap and may come to the conclusion that you're maybe using inferior grade diamonds. I know you're not, but a member of the general public may think this.

Your selling the kits but would'nt an individual price for each cutter be available, I bought one of your kits but found it's mainly 15mm and up that I use and need replacing

Richard.

The concern that your wife mentioned about OTP advertising was what one of the issues that was in my mind when I wrote my post earlier. You've put it over very well in a couple of sentances. I couldn't find the words myself.

I still feel that you could split the Sun readers into 2 general groups where your product is concerned:

1) Those who have never experienced the need for a better drill for tiles

2) Those who have and have gone out looking for such a solution. These people may know that, for example B&Q sell kits similar to yours for around £60, cheaper than the £120 for the individual bits you mention but not as cheap as the £49.99 you are offering yours for

Also, I may have said this earlier, but the average DIYer may not be interested in the 16mm, 30mm or the 40mm bits. They are likely to be fitting mirrors or bathroom cabinets etc and hence will only be interested in the 6 and 8mm bits. Cheaper kits at arond £30 would get the product into more peoples' homes, and the accompanying literature you send will invite them to buy the bigger sets/single items.

i tend to agree with the other members. To me this ad looks like one of those ads promoting useless tat or the latest cant do without without gadget, you know like the one where you can make your own coleslaw saving£££'s I'm saying what i see in that ad, thast all. Now anyone who is familiar with this forum knows you have a quallity product and i hope the comments are taken with the same spirit in which they're given, its just this ad is too condensed, and just looks like just another back page ad selling probably an inferior product. maybe less info is more in this case?

These sort of ads yes i may look at but more often than not i just flip by them.If this ad is getting place towards the back of the paper my own personnel thoughts are these ads are gimmicks and won't work,besides it will get lost in all the phone adverts.

Lets face it guys go to the back pages to read the sport then flip to the front for page3,i'm not being sexiest but most of your market will be men and thats what men do.So the ad maybe lost in that section.

It has been mentioned before but a sexy young lady in the ad will get mens attention.

I know your a big company and aiming at a diff market but my experience of advertising in a paper all be it a local rag has thrown up nothing so i'm not entirely sure a papers the way to go maybe some trade mag maybe more profitable then your targeting your market appose to a bit hit and a miss with DIYers who lets face it don't know any better and will go to the DIY sheds to buy THE 1 DRILL THEY NEED not a full set that they'll use once then lie in the shed for years on end.

As for your ad it's very busy like i said before i wouldn't read it fully,i lost interest at the start but maybe thats because i know your product works from reading testimonials on here.

Maybe you could have a word way Dan and get him to clump testimonies together in one or several pages and put a link to that in your ad in a quite prominent place showing your product actually works and at that price it's not cheap and nasty s***

Good luck with what ever you decide

Im inclined to agree with most of the posts about bein busy and clustered. Personally I would like to see a DIY type kit, which will have maybe two 6mm, two 8mm and a 10mm drill bit as these are proberly the most popular for drilling holes for raw plugs for hanging mirrors, toilet roll holders and the like.

In defence of wanting to post an ad in the Sun newspaper. 2-3 million people is a lot of exposure and if 1-5% of these people decide to buy the product then that is quite a lot of revenue for a business.

Obviously this type of marketing works with some success as the companies keep on doing it.

Have you spoken to Darren - NETT, I see his adverts in the sun from time to time?

Just a quick update on this:

REVISED UPDATE:

THANK YOU FOR ALL THE COMMENTS BELOW: WE HAVE FINISHED THE AD AND ARE PREPARED TO RUN IT AND READY TO TEST THE MARKET.
I appreciate all of the comments and have decided to take a huge business risk (financial risk) by running the ad.

Like any gamble it can pay off both ways. The ad agencies now have this completed copy and as soon as a slot opens up we run...

Finished Copy

Good luck mate I hope it works for you

good luck Richard, won't make me buy the Sun though!