Hey guys... ive been reading many posts on the site regarding laser levels and it seems a bit of a mine field, so I'm just after thoughts on which of the 3 ive been looking at would be best.

Stablia Lax 50 pros: The price is the biggest plus with this and the telescopic pole is a useful addition. Cons: Not sure it would be any use on a floor, pole seems a little short for those tall ceilings, accuracy may be an issue (but does 5mm/10m really matter? No worse than a level and a sharp eye)

Leica Lino L2 pros: Price is just about OK, can be combined with a pole, accuracy is really good 2mm/10m, does floors. Cons: Doesn't seems a popular choice on the forums and traders seem desperate to sell.

Laserliner Autocross 3 Mk II pros: Does the lot from the sound of it, accuracy is good 2mm/10m, seems to have good write-ups. Cons: A little above what I'm wanting to pay and the pole is a pricey accessory too.

HUmM tricky!!

I dont know about laser levels, but i used to do a lot of photography, and leica was the dogs danglies, for optical equipment. I think that would be my choice.

Originally Posted by Eddie

I dont know about laser levels, but i used to do a lot of photography, and leica was the dogs danglies, for optical equipment. I think that would be my choice.

sorted then
just take a photo of the wall and draw a line in it

Your rite it is a mine field, i bought a level which does floor/ceing. cant remember the name (its inthe van) what a load of b******s. supose to be 20m linear + but after at least 1.5 linear metre the line went fuzzy. Not helpful when doing vicky geometric. went back to tried and tested square. If i could afford a 500 quid laser then maybe, but the cheap alternatives just dont cut it. Tried and tested for me until i hit the big time

go for the autocross, i have one and its a great piece of kit , you dont need the pole just screw the holding bracket to the wall ..

I take it the holding bracket comes with the level Andy??

If you want a laser that does it all - and does it superbly - Stanley FatMax CL54. Because it does every kind of laser line you can get, it is far far more useful than a 1 trick pony. Maybe its because I build as well as tile, but I've used it countless times since I got it and every time I use it I congratulate my good choice. Superb tool.

As for sticking lasers to the wall - I still can't quite get my head around how that works - without damaging the wall.

Poles - great - if you have a flat celing, otherwise you're probably stuffed. I would also worry about marking the ceiling.

Ideal world - a tripod. However, being a photographer and owning one of the worlds most adaptable tripod, I've not actually found a laser tripod that will do the same tricks of going down to ground level and upto over 2mts. I'm still looking for one (without spending a fortune) - and I don't want tile addy all over my Gitzo photographic one.

One of the unique things the Leica does, which I've not seen on any other laser, is the ability to make the laser line go at an angle, not just horizontal or vertical. Not sure when I'd use that - perhaps waste pipe falls? But not sure of its use for tiling.

Definitely get a self levelling laser and one that is of semi decent quality. Can't see the point in any level if its accuracy can't be trusted.

Paul

BTW - the Stanley will do the following lines:

Horizontal lines x2 - so that it covers 180 degrees or more.
Vertical lines x3 - each of the 3 verticals is at a perfect 90 degrees to the other. Meaning you can square up and entire room easily.
Cross line x3 - because you now have 2 horizontals and 3 verticals, you actually get 3 cross lines and perfect 90 degrees to eachother - very useful I find.
Plumb down and plumb up - more useful for me building partition walls etc.

Originally Posted by JoeB

Hey guys... ive been reading many posts on the site regarding laser levels and it seems a bit of a mine field, so I'm just after thoughts on which of the 3 ive been looking at would be best.

Stablia Lax 50 pros: The price is the biggest plus with this and the telescopic pole is a useful addition. Cons: Not sure it would be any use on a floor, pole seems a little short for those tall ceilings, accuracy may be an issue (but does 5mm/10m really matter? No worse than a level and a sharp eye)

Leica Lino L2 pros: Price is just about OK, can be combined with a pole, accuracy is really good 2mm/10m, does floors. Cons: Doesn't seems a popular choice on the forums and traders seem desperate to sell.

Laserliner Autocross 3 Mk II pros: Does the lot from the sound of it, accuracy is good 2mm/10m, seems to have good write-ups. Cons: A little above what I'm wanting to pay and the pole is a pricey accessory too.

HUmM tricky!!

You will only get 5mm/10m accuracy if you slide the level along the wall. If you turn your level end to end every time you move it you should have acurracy of +/- 0.5mm/10m instead of 5mm!

Much more accurate than a laser!.....assuming of course your eyes are good........

Originally Posted by grumpygrouter

You will only get 5mm/10m accuracy if you slide the level along the wall. If you turn your level end to end every time you move it you should have acurracy of +/- 0.5mm/10m instead of 5mm!

Much more accurate than a laser!.....assuming of course your eyes are good........

I don't get you Grumpy? Maybe I've misread your post

Are you saying that - if you slide your level - you will get 5mm/10mm accuracy - BUT - if you end to end it, you will get .5/10m? How so? Each time you look at a bubble level, there is guaranteed to be a tiny bit of inaccuracy, and that, multiplied over a large distance will increase every time you move the level.

Benefit of a laser is that you are not moving the level at all.

Plus, the most of the good lasers have a +/- of either 2 or 3mm per 10metres. That is the same as 0.2-0.3 per 1 metre (if my maths is correct). As even a good Stabila spirit level will only do +/- 0.5mm per 1mt - how exactly is the spirit level ever going to be more accurate? You have more of an innacuracy to start with, then you have the movement of the actual physical level each time you have to move along the wall - which over a 10mt distance will be considerable.

Holding a level upto a wall with a single pair of hands - and then being able to mark the wall is always a pain, let alone then trying to move it. Plus there is the inaccuracy of each time you make a pencil mark.

Not only that - but can you hold that level there, while you tile up to that mark? I tend to find that the adhesive covers my pencil marks. Whereas I can set my laser along a horizontal and vertical line and keep on tiling that whole section, without once having to move the laser, and see that lovely red line telling me my tiles are all in line - perfectly. To do the same with a spirit level, you have to continually pick up the spirit level to check things. I'm not saying that doesn't work - just that using the laser makes is SO much easier.

Plus - try this beauty with a laser. Going round corners. Taking a horizontal line around a room is dead simple with a laser. It draws its red line around every nook/cranny/corner. Even complex boxed in corners. Its very difficult to do that with a spirit level. For a start you need very small levels (more inaccurate) or - you end up just marking the ends of the level, where it touches the corner - never a very accurate thing to do, especially while trying to hold the level with one hand and mark it with the other. A laser rids you of all those problems.

Lasers are not perfect - and if I can I will use my lovely 8ft Stabila, you can't beat a nice straight edge - but I wouldn't want to live without my laser again. Only thing I would ensure - is don't buy a cheap one. Cheap and inacurate = no point buying it.

Paul

Paul, my AMI level is guaranteed to be accurate to 0.5mm/M. Lets say, for instance that you draw a line using your level from a base point at 1 end, then the line should be a maximum of 0.5 mm out (either up or down, it doesn't matter). lets say it is now 0.5mm higher at the end away from the starting point and you slide your level along the wall to the end of the line and then, checking the bubble is level, draw another line to the end of the level, your line will now be 1mm above the original start point.

If on the other hand you turned your level end to end then the "inaccuracey" has automatically been corrected because you are starting your second line from the high point and drawing a line downwards back to the original start point height. You therefore have 0mm deviation from the start point. This is all theory of course as it depends how good you are at reading the bubble and how accurately you reposition your level.

With a laser it is possible (note the emphisis) that if you project you laser line along a 10m wall with tolerance of +/- 3mm/10M that the line could be 3mm higher at 1 end relative to the other.

I am not saying that this will be the case but if it was, the manufacturer of the laser level says it is perfectly ok, yet if you continued to be that far out along a 10m room, you have lost your grout lines by the time you get back around your room.

why do you need a laser how big are your jobs?

my autocross laser is much more accurate than my stabila level , spot on every time, i would not be without it now , and as was said before you have to spend and buy a quality one..

Grumpy - although I fully understand your logic, I'd really love to see it in action over a 10mt run. I really do think that over that length, there are so many things that could go wrong - for instance pencil marks being slightly up or down each time you mark, that I really do not believe that the final mark would be very level with the start mark. I bet a penny (since I is poor and there is a recession on) that it would be more than 3mm out.

Whereas with the Laser - a 3mm accurate one - you are guaranteed to be maximum 3mm out either way. Which - over 10mt is pretty damn accurate, all things taken into consideration.

And as for meeting up with the rest of the room - a laser wins hands down. As it is continually projecting its line all the way around the room - you can just leave it switched on - and be guaranteed that if you stick to that little red line, by the time you get go all the way around the room, you will exactly meet your start point.

Paul

BTW - I'm not actually tiling anything 10mt long. Just using it as an example, as its that distance that lasers are generally measured in, accuracy wise.

PS - of course if you want true accuracy - it has to be a water level. But a pain in the butt to use.

Originally Posted by pt44

Grumpy - although I fully understand your logic, I'd really love to see it in action over a 10mt run. I really do think that over that length, there are so many things that could go wrong - for instance pencil marks being slightly up or down each time you mark, that I really do not believe that the final mark would be very level with the start mark. I bet a penny (since I is poor and there is a recession on) that it would be more than 3mm out.

Whereas with the Laser - a 3mm accurate one - you are guaranteed to be maximum 3mm out either way. Which - over 10mt is pretty damn accurate, all things taken into consideration.

And as for meeting up with the rest of the room - a laser wins hands down. As it is continually projecting its line all the way around the room - you can just leave it switched on - and be guaranteed that if you stick to that little red line, by the time you get go all the way around the room, you will exactly meet your start point.

Paul

BTW - I'm not actually tiling anything 10mt long. Just using it as an example, as its that distance that lasers are generally measured in, accuracy wise.

PS - of course if you want true accuracy - it has to be a water level. But a pain in the butt to use.

'tis enough to lose a 2mm grout line though..........But as I said in my post, the theory of both systems makes the level more accurate as you are compensating for the discrepency every time you turn the level. Whether or not our eyes and personal tolarances are good enough is a different matter altogether.......

grumpy my laser is way more accurate than the level , trust me im a tiler!!

hi, just a quicky, grumpy grouter, iv read what you have been saying about levels and it is very interesting and i will use it, it sounds as though it will make my work better, also when using a level for level and plumb on tiles you should also turn end to end????????
iv been considering a laser for some time and am still not shour about it, i like the look of the dewalt dw087, cross line laser, but id rather borrow one than spend out £150 (thats the best price iv found) and then make a decision from there.

Hey there Ive not long bought a stabila lax 50 from trade tilers (that should get me a nice discount next time lol) Im still trying to work out the pole as on an artex celing its not really secure but the pole is more than big enough to reach the average ceiling, when in tri pod mode its the mutts nuts mate thats all I can say and all my hand levels are stabilla always use them

i may be old fashioned,but i still use the tried and tested method of a "water level",reaches places where a laser level cant,and it will be more accurate

That is very true mate It was used by they roman for years and years before a lazer was thouht of lol

Originally Posted by garhum

That is very true mate It was used by they roman for years and years before a lazer was thouht of lol

yeah and the romans knew how to tile properly

Originally Posted by medlar

yeah and the romans knew how to tile properly

you get to your work on a chariot ??

Originally Posted by medlar

i may be old fashioned,but i still use the tried and tested method of a "water level",reaches places where a laser level cant,and it will be more accurate

Although extremely accurate - how do you hold one end while checking the other? My only attempts with the one my father gave me have been painful. Always given up with it. Do you have some kind of fixing device for one end?

I'd still say a laser is the easiest thing to use. Regardless of accuracy - and I think the accuracy of a good quality laser - is MORE than adequate for almost all circumstances.

Paul

Originally Posted by pt44

Although extremely accurate - how do you hold one end while checking the other? My only attempts with the one my father gave me have been painful. Always given up with it. Do you have some kind of fixing device for one end?

I'd still say a laser is the easiest thing to use. Regardless of accuracy - and I think the accuracy of a good quality laser - is MORE than adequate for almost all circumstances.

Paul

if working on my own,i use 2 panel pins to hold the water level in place