Help!: Tiling onto existing tiles

[Plumbing Tiler]

Hi All!,
Wow, I only joined yesterday and already I find myself needing your advice, I went out last night to do a quote for a bathroom, the customer has recently had a new bathroom fitted and now has decided he hates the tiles (ceramic black marble effect), it does make the room look very small and dark, so he wants it tiled again over these as he says he cannot put up with the mess and dust etc from removing the tiles.
I have never tiled onto tiles before, always stripped them off, so I wanted to know if it is acceptable to do this, and if so what preparation is required, and most importantly, what you experts feel about this practice and if you would do it?, like most people I really do need this job and would like to do as the customer wishes but not at the expense of my reputation or my guarantee!, also the new tiles are fairly large in size 600 x 300mm so weight could also be an issue?
Thanks in advance!

[Sir Ramic]

No way should this be done IMO.

[Stewart]

I wouldn't do it either.....

[garybadger]

Need to strip the lot off and start again.
The weight off the 60x30 tiles on top of the wall already tiled is too heavy per m2 for the wall.

[josephjohns]

Plaster bonding agent its a red gritty stuff, you just roller it on 24 hours before tiling used it loads of times. just make shaw the tiles your tiling on are solid, and you wipe it of his new bath before it dries because you won't shift it when it does

[nybor62]

strip the lot off, and i wish tilers on here would stop advising people how to tile on tiles its not the right way of doing things, i understand it being done on some commercials jobs which is still bad practice , but deffo not on domestic with 600x300 tiles as a substrate

[swanman]

Well said nybor62

Very good advise i hope he takes it on board

And dosent get bullied by the customer to over tile

[patrick horisk]

Its all about cost at the end of the day!! If the client can't or won't pay for the original tiles to be stripped and replastered then what you going to do turn the job down?? Anyway tiling on tile is easy as long as the surface is sound then prime it and crack on as normal!! Not a big problem at all! Down to the client at the end of the day! All you can do is advise them which i agree with on not tiling on tile but if there happy with it then so be it

[nybor62]

i could,nt disagree with you more, so is it easier to tile on tile than it is plaster board, or any other suitable surface
im not saying it cant be done , but it should,nt be done imo

[macten]

I'd never personally tile on tile on walls but accept that it is done, but putting 60x30's on top of wall tiles is madness!

[whitebeam]

As above, you don't know how well fixed the existing tiles are...

[jay]

Your call,

Your name

[kilty55]

there seems to be a fair few people condoning tiling in tile and it doesnt seem to matter what its onto or what the tiles are,,,things are hard enough out there workwise and your making it even harder by condoning these methods in view of the public on here!

[jay]

Makes it harder when the tile retail outlets are pushing it '(yes you can tile on tile it says so on the bag )

[Phil Hobson]

Plaster bonding agent its a red gritty stuff, you just roller it on 24 hours before tiling used it loads of times. just make shaw the tiles your tiling on are solid, and you wipe it of his new bath before it dries because you won't shift it when it does

Hi Joseph, we are aware of these products, but as stated above, (and many times on this forum) it is not the ability of the adhesive to key to a tiled surface. Rather how well bonded are the tiles, you are tiling to. Very bad practice imo. Each to their own, I hope i can sleep soundly knowing my tiles are fixed correctly.

[John Benton]

Its all about cost at the end of the day!! If the client can't or won't pay for the original tiles to be stripped and replastered then what you going to do turn the job down?? Anyway tiling on tile is easy as long as the surface is sound then prime it and crack on as normal!! Not a big problem at all! Down to the client at the end of the day! All you can do is advise them which i agree with on not tiling on tile but if there happy with it then so be it

I WOULD walk away from the job and have done previously. There are too many potential problems that could occur and this all ends up at your door. If you go and accept the job on your head be it, or rather your customers head when it fails. Steer clear IMO.

[whitebeam]

there seems to be a fair few people condoning tiling in tile and it doesnt seem to matter what its onto or what the tiles are,,,things are hard enough out there workwise and your making it even harder by condoning these methods in view of the public on here!

It's the public that need educating on this matter Jamie....

[GirlRacerRed]

Does your customer have children? How would you like to receive a telephone call saying that the layer of tiles you fixed have fallen off whilst the customer was bathing one of their children?

[Perfect Tiling]

If the customer wont take good advice then say bye bye...if you do the job and problems arrise then you will have a bad name...always harder to get rid of.... Give them the correct methods and advice and quite often you get the job because you know what you are on about and come across as professional. I quoted a job last month at £350 dearer than anyone else because I was the only one who said I wouldn't put 610 x 405 x 12mm travertine onto glazed ceramic tiles stuck to 10mm plasterboard. I priced for full removal and reboard. I got the job. Good luck.

[kilty55]

with so many customers being price orientated atm mark my concern is when they read these threads where numerous tilers condone tiling on tile with anything and having done it for years they will think its okay to save money

[Plumbing Tiler]

Thanks very much for your replies everyone, I will inform the customer that it is better to remove the existing tiles, make good and then re-tile, I hope he will accept this and understand, but at least I will sleep soundly knowing I did the right (professional) thing!

[scott mccoll]

think your doing the right thing listening to some good sound advice, i know times can be tough but all it takes is for the ONE job to go wrong ;doesn't do the old reputation any good

[Discount Tile Supplies]

I dont think its fair to say retailers push "tile on tile". We supply the adhesive to the customer, granted, But its the tillers that fix the tiles!
There are many tillers not struggling for work but twice as many wanting to pay their mortgages and will tile anything. Time will tell with these guys who stick up anything and to anything. This week we are replacing 5 bathrooms for a customer because the tiller used the wrong adhesives and wrong substrates (adhesives purchased on price from SELCO).
We get plenty of guys in that say "never had a problem yet" and we say YET. Customers are price orientated, at the moment and people are willing to cut corners when quiet. I get more problems with tillers 'dot and dabbing' than tile on tile.
IMO, in an ideal world, i would not recommend tile on tile, but most customers want to keep price down and its a chance they take, like you said its only as good as the tile underneath.
Some one will tile this job, and they will fall off! And i bet it will dot and dab with ready mixed.

[jay]

I dont think its fair to say retailers push "tile on tile". We supply the adhesive to the customer, granted, But its the tillers that fix the tiles!
There are many tillers not struggling for work but twice as many wanting to pay their mortgages and will tile anything. Time will tell with these guys who stick up anything and to anything. This week we are replacing 5 bathrooms for a customer because the tiller used the wrong adhesives and wrong substrates (adhesives purchased on price from SELCO).
We get plenty of guys in that say "never had a problem yet" and we say YET. Customers are price orientated, at the moment and people are willing to cut corners when quiet. I get more problems with tillers 'dot and dabbing' than tile on tile.
IMO, in an ideal world, i would not recommend tile on tile, but most customers want to keep price down and its a chance they take, like you said its only as good as the tile underneath.


Some one will tile this job, and they will fall off! And i bet it will dot and dab with ready mixed.

As long as the salesman informs the customer of the dangers involved with fixing over shoddy substrates that would be fine ,but most don't (and the tiler is on the back foot to start with)

[garybadger]

I've been to a few jobs, where the people have been to the biggest tile suppliers and some, (NOT ALL) haven't got a clue on what they are selling.
1. customer bought natural stone, I go to look at her job, talk her through everything that's needing done, i.e cement based adhesive's, prime walls, seal the tiles, they will eventually need sealed again in roughly 2-3 years time as they are a natural product and they require maintenance.
Customer didn't know any of this, had been sold BAL GREEN STAR for a 40x40 travertine bathroom as it was the cheapest and no mention of needing to seal these tiles.
2. Last week a customer had been in picking tiles from another well known tile supplier. Had picked out 80x80 porcelain tiles to go on the existing plastered walls, told her she may not be able to do it, due to the weight of these per m2, but I'd go down and ask the necessary questions and get her a discount.
Guy in there never had a bloody clue, what I was on about. Looked at me like I had horns coming out my head, when I was quizzing them on everything.
10 mins later, I left with not 1 of my questions answered as the guy just didn't know. Said he would ask his boss to phone me, and I'm still waiting.
The people selling the stuff, should be put on some sort of course as well.
I get it's their jobs sell stuff, but they are just trying to get stuff out the door.

[swanman]

Never tile on tile

Even if the customer wants you to, ive walk away from jobs .yes ive lost the job but i havent got the worry that tiles will fail and get a call back

Sometimes you just have to cut your loses

[dave l and l]

the sales people should not give adviseunless they have been trained to do so . but they shouldnt be expected to either as its not there job to advise people, its ther job to sell to them
people dont ask the sales team in homebase how to build a house nor do they ask the staff in asda how to cook a chicken
to be honest if i worked in tile shop i would want to make my sales as they sometimes get a commision

[jay]

If we are talking a tile shop then the salesman or saleswoman should know what they are selling and its limitations and advice with that knowledge , commission or salary.as that is there product

somewhere like home base or hardware stores you just take pot luck unless they have someone trained in that area

[Jim Stradwick]

You can tile over tile that's why they make adhesives to do so , the weight is defiantly a factor. Done it a hundred times as long as the first job was level and installed with cement and not mastic.

[Dave]

You can tile over tile that's why they make adhesives to do so , the weight is defiantly a factor. Done it a hundred times as long as the first job was level and installed with cement and not mastic.

Oh! God help us, another one.