NVQ 3, Truths ans Myths

[ozboz]

Hiya,
A mixed response from the last post about these NVQ'S, I have an appointment on Thursday with the NVQ Manager of a Company based at Canary Wharf, I spoke to him on Friday, he expelled some of the myths etc surrounding these qualifications. He maied me some info re NVQ 3 Wall & Floor Tiling and NVQ 3 Heritage Tiling. I have cut and pasted an overview of the modules needed.

He gave me a good explanation re NVQ 2 and 3. It seems that the '2' is, as has been mentioned, the minimal knowledge required to call yourself a Tiler. '3' however does chaulk it up , at this point I cannot post a proper assessment of what is involved, but come Thursday armed with more info then I will put something on the forum. But it should be accepted that the NVQ 3 is not worth having.

Anyway here are the overviews of NVQ 3 Tiling and 3 Heritage

NVQ 3

Mandatory Units

(credit value: 80)

Units required: 8

QCF01	Conforming to General Safety in the Workplace	2	7	1	F/600/7138
QCF141	Preparing Backgrounds to Receive Wall and/or Floor Tiling in the Workplace	8	27	2	K/600/6467
QCF142	Tiling Wall and Floor Surfaces in the Workplace	13	43	2	L/600/6560
QCF143	Producing Geometrical Patterned Tiled, Mosaic and Natural Stone Surface Finishes in the Workplace	17	57	3	R/600/6561
QCF209	Confirming Work Activities and Resources for an Occupational Work Area in the Workplace	10	33	3	Y/600/7078
QCF210	Developing and Maintaining Good Occupational Working Relationships in the Workplace	8	27	5	D/600/7079
QCF211	Confirming the Occupational Method of Work in the Workplace	11	37	3	R/600/7080
QCF69	Laying Sand and Cement Screeds to Levels and/or Falls in the Workplace	11	37	3	K/600/6565

NVQ 3 Heritage
Mandatory Units

(credit value: 95)

Units required: 7

QCF01	Conforming to General Safety in the Workplace	2	7	1	F/600/7138
QCF141	Preparing Backgrounds to Receive Wall and/or Floor Tiling in the Workplace	8	27	2	K/600/6467
QCF209	Confirming Work Activities and Resources for an Occupational Work Area in the Workplace	10	33	3	Y/600/7078
QCF210	Developing and Maintaining Good Occupational Working Relationships in the Workplace	8	27	5	D/600/7079
QCF211	Confirming the Occupational Method of Work in the Workplace	11	37	3	R/600/7080
QCF546	Working on Conservation and Restoration Projects in the Workplace	30	100	3	K/600/7635
QCF555	Conserving, Restoring or Maintaining Wall and Floor Tiling in the Workplace	26	87	3	D/600/7664

[peteablard]

Look forward to reading more as this is something I'm going to do myself a bit later in the year

[ozboz]

No probs Mate, at this moment my opinion is that it is well worth having ,

[ozboz]

Ooops !! Phil has picked up on a contradiction , I stated on first post on this thread that level 3 was not worth having, then later on thread said it was, first was wrong , it is worth having, got meeting tom arvo at Canary Wharf, will get all relevant info i can, and use full contacts, seeya Steve

[ozboz]

Ok, went along to see the NVQ people, some interesting stuff came out of it, this qualification NVQ 3, if assessed properly would determine if the candidate does infact know their game. However, the correct questions are presented for the assessor to ask, and for the candidate to answer or demonstrate, this is where it seems a little on the light side. It is required for us to answer or demonstrate to the assessor, but, the mandatory requisites involve all sorts of answers/demonstation, so if the assessor rocks up to a job to do his bit, and say your on a wall tiling only, onto dry lined surface, you can only demonstrate how to perform this installation, similarly for a floor onto concrete substate. Now personally, I can name at least 11 different wall surfaces that all require unique preparation and cosideration, and at least 14 floor situations. So it could not be expected for the assessor to visit you every time you have an installation of the 25 I can mention. So it would be down to question time,
possibly backed up with references and photos.

This qualification, therefore in my opinion can only be granted by a fully qualified tiler, who can ascertain the knowledge and practical skills of each individual in an effort to regulate

[Phil Hobson]

Cheers for that Steve, as you know the units needed for level 3 are going to be changed, and hopfully wil include sand and cement work.

[deanotile]

Ok, went along to see the NVQ people, some interesting stuff came out of it, this qualification NVQ 3, if assessed properly would determine if the candidate does infact know their game. However, the correct questions are presented for the assessor to ask, and for the candidate to answer or demonstrate, this is where it seems a little on the light side. It is required for us to answer or demonstrate to the assessor, but, the mandatory requisites involve all sorts of answers/demonstation, so if the assessor rocks up to a job to do his bit, and say your on a wall tiling only, onto dry lined surface, you can only demonstrate how to perform this installation, similarly for a floor onto concrete substate. Now personally, I can name at least 11 different wall surfaces that all require unique preparation and cosideration, and at least 14 floor situations. So it could not be expected for the assessor to visit you every time you have an installation of the 25 I can mention. So it would be down to question time,
possibly backed up with references and photos.

This qualification, therefore in my opinion can only be granted by a fully qualified tiler, who can ascertain the knowledge and practical skills of each individual in an effort to regulate

An assessor dose not have to be trade specific they just have to assess the evidence in front of them and be able to trust the evidence presented.

[penno]

Couple of "plasterers" on the site i am on have recently been given their NVQs, supposed to recognise them as fully qualified and capable of doing the job. The assessor must have been on the pop when he passed them, used as labourers as they just can't do the job.
I did tons of NVQs a few years back when i was in the Army, had no use of them, assessor himself used to describe NQS as Not Very Qualified.
Appreciate that it seems the modern ones do have a use though, some companies do look for people with them.

[ozboz]

I did not get to finish this post, im on an unfamiliar computer and posted before I got finished, tried to edit but found out i only had 20 mins to do this, so before anyone else responds please wait till I finish it, wont be till tom sometime ok cheere

[Wingn]

Not sure if it's much of a real life benefit. Was halfway through mine after my level 2 but the allure of working in Dublin meant I never finished it. The only real advantage of it that I seen was that you can become a tech tutor with it if you ever fancy going off the tools. Never needed it in a real world situation, as you get a gold CSR (or English equivilent) card after 5 years anyway.

[ozboz]

Hi again, still waiting for info about NVQ 3 Heritage, I am going to have this bolted on to NVQ 3 Tiling. I am on the fence about these things, from the information I have read,the info I got from last weeks meeting,and comments from the forum, it is hard to define if these Diplomas as they call them at this level actually determine if candidates are competant, the first thing that was said at the meeting was than you cannot fail an NVQ ???. Anyhow, as said, I am waiting for further contact wih the providers armed with that I'll put my bit on here. Seeya Steve aka ozboz

[jay]

One of those pay and you receive a card tricks

[martyof]

Hey Guys, I've started to wonder if I should do my NVQ 3 as I'm planning to head out to OZ and I was thinking it might help with the application process. Does anyone know of schools that assess you in London, over private companies? Also has anyone heard of people getting knocked back from OZ on account of just having a NVQ2? Don't fancy fannying around for another 6 months waiting to get assessed...

[swanman]

good luck with oz

I think any nvq will be good in oz

[ozboz]

Hard to say, i spent 15 years over there, in truth. Its not really that different but if you have little or no sand cement experience tou may have a problem regardless of nvq,

[deanotile]

You are correct about the fact you can’t fail an NVQ you may be found lacking in a given unit of the NVQ but you will be given time and if required training on that unit or even element of that unit.
There is no time limit to an NVQ so you can have the training and have time to go out and exercise your new skills in the work place.
(this no time limit sticks in my throat a bit as it has been abused by some of the more unscrupulous training providers but that is for another thread )
IMHO if an assessor is provided all the evidence required and he trusts the evidence to be the truth there is no reason for the assessor not to Singh of the NVQ even if the portfolio was put together in a short period of time it will have taken you years to gather all the evidence .
Most of the NVQ will be on things that are nothing to do with how good a tiler you are. Things like : Conforming to General Safety in the Workplace ,Confirming Work Activities and Resources for an Occupational Work Area in the Workplace , Developing and Maintaining Good Occupational Working Relationships in the Workplace , Confirming the Occupational Method of Work in the Workplace.
These things have nothing to do with how good or bad you are as a fixer.
The other units that deal with : Preparing Backgrounds to Receive Wall and/or Floor Tiling in the Workplace, Tiling Wall and Floor Surfaces in the Workplace , Producing Geometrical Patterned Tiled, Mosaic and Natural Stone Surface Finishes in the Workplace , Laying Sand and Cement Screeds to Levels and/or Falls in the Workplace.
These things all have industry standards to be checked against so you do not have to have been a tiler for 20 years to assess some one that has.

[AliGage]

Personally i think an NVQ would certainly add some clout to a tilers skills on paper. But, in my opinion experience is the best qualification. NVQ's are a bit like the free toy from a cereal packet, anyone can pick one up.

[deanotile]

Personally i think an NVQ would certainly add some clout to a tilers skills on paper. But, in my opinion experience is the best qualification. NVQ's are a bit like the free toy from a cereal packet, anyone can pick one up.

LOL I’d like to see you get on site with a toy from your snap crackle and pop

[ozboz]

Been a few developments with this NVQ bit, should have something sorted by end of next week, at the moment I cant see how the cost is justifiable, obviously there are admin costs etc, but these assessors ? , I could understand if a person from the trade, well qualified etc had to take time away from work hours, days plus expenses, but not for someone who is not, to my way of thinking, this is where its falling down, this qualification does not appear to be held in revere, which it should, by all, judging by the responses, it is a mixed bag, anyway, leaving it for now, seeya Steve

[Wingn]

LOL I’d like to see you get on site with a toy from your snap crackle and pop

Is an NVQ required to get on some sites on the mainland?

All I know about NVQs is that when we were doing ours at tech, the tutor dictated what to write and we wrote it onto our pages, and he came out on site for 15 minutes every 6 months. Don't really think it served any real purpose apart from to keep the colleges and tutors in work.

[AliGage]

This is exactly the point i was trying to make. Be interesting to know how much of the course work and the structure of the NVQ. Granted you'd struggle to get on sitework without it. Having said that, i've employeed "tilers" that have done their college, got their NVQ etc. Put them infront of a wall that's not fresh, new and perfect plasterboard and they haven't a clue. Hence my initial comments on the matter.